Pocster Posted October 19, 2018 Author Posted October 19, 2018 Just for completeness. Here’s the front effort they left me - i’ve Not touch this . When I flooded the site no water went over these bits as it’s fair too say they’ll leak . Enjoy quality !!
Pocster Posted October 19, 2018 Author Posted October 19, 2018 On 19/10/2018 at 13:18, Mr Punter said: I suggest a liquid product so that you can easily detail around and onto the upstands. Expand What about the ‘pavers’ on stilts idea ?. Assuming you can get a system you can drive on ! . Could even have a pump below the stilts for drainage . Whats this system actually called ???
Mr Punter Posted October 19, 2018 Posted October 19, 2018 I don't know of any you can drive on. I have used some plastic pedestals but they are only for pedestrian traffic. I imagine you would need a fairly hefty galv steel support system to drive over and would be £££
Onoff Posted October 19, 2018 Posted October 19, 2018 Surely there is an industrial strength liquid tanking membrane out there that can be applied to make good the existing substrate?
Pocster Posted October 19, 2018 Author Posted October 19, 2018 Brainwave attack ! Centre of plot I.e where you park waterproof concrete whatever To the sides stilts ! Then walk on glass is effectively not going to be ever submerged ! - same on other side !! As long as you park straight ( not that we are ever going to park on it anyway ) Does THIS have some merit ? ( feeling very smug )
PeterW Posted October 19, 2018 Posted October 19, 2018 By the time you have mucked about you will have to dig the concrete up anyway so I would take the lot up and start again. Sounds like the clown circus who put the rubber down didn’t do it properly and you need to get it up and get it done right. Unless there is a desperate need, I wouldn’t be putting another layer of concrete in as this could end up coming up in future .... You need to design in some sort of drainage mechanism too - either that or ditch the pavers and go for waterproof concrete to the last 1” and then use resin bound gravel as the top surface and create a multi layer surface that has waterproofing built in every layer by design. 2
Onoff Posted October 19, 2018 Posted October 19, 2018 Ideally the whole roof should slope to the drainage channel. What you can end up with is an ostensibly flooded roof, aka standing water that taken as a whole (or just in isolated patches that can't drain) will exert considerable sideways pressure and ferret out any weak points. I recently saw an upside down roof with this problem. The insulation was sat atop the asphalt. Part of the solution was to cut a series of Vs in the underside of the insulation. A guy did it by hand. So neat it reminded me of acoustic tiles. How about making good then tanking the reinforced concrete area. Then laying this stuff: http://www.abg-geosynthetics.com/products/deckdrain.html With the paving on top. Still not 100% on the roof make up? Mass concrete roof EDPM Reinforced concrete Paving ?
Pocster Posted October 19, 2018 Author Posted October 19, 2018 Spoke to the architect- my idea has merit ! And yes @PeterW I could duck about around each window and never find the leak(s). Assuming I rip the lot up back to the rubber . Will the rubber come off the cement particle board ? . If not would a proper rubber roofer be happy to rubber over the top of existing rubber ?? Worry the ‘stilts’ will dig into rubber . My architect is adamant water proof concrete doesn’t exist ?
Triassic Posted October 19, 2018 Posted October 19, 2018 On 19/10/2018 at 14:19, pocster said: .My architect is adamant water proof concrete doesn’t exist ? Expand 1 I had a very large raised concrete reservoir at work, that didn't leak 1
Pocster Posted October 19, 2018 Author Posted October 19, 2018 On 19/10/2018 at 13:53, Onoff said: Ideally the whole roof should slope to the drainage channel. What you can end up with is an ostensibly flooded roof, aka standing water that taken as a whole (or just in isolated patches that can't drain) will exert considerable sideways pressure and ferret out any weak points. I recently saw an upside down roof with this problem. The insulation was sat atop the asphalt. Part of the solution was to cut a series of Vs in the underside of the insulation. A guy did it by hand. So neat it reminded me of acoustic tiles. How about making good then tanking the reinforced concrete area. Then laying this stuff: http://www.abg-geosynthetics.com/products/deckdrain.html With the paving on top. Still not 100% on the roof make up? Mass concrete roof EDPM Reinforced concrete Paving ? Expand The roof make up was (top down ) pavers 35mm reinforced concrete rubber particle board vac insulation 100mm reinforced concrete But I think that’s all going to change !
Pocster Posted October 19, 2018 Author Posted October 19, 2018 Hmmmmm How do I make a ‘fall’ in poured concrete ......?
PeterW Posted October 19, 2018 Posted October 19, 2018 1:40 you can shutter in easily so there should be no problem with less than that. Forget you had vac panel insulation in there - that won’t survive the concrete being ripped off it .... Any chance you can reconsider this as not being a driveway ..?
Triassic Posted October 19, 2018 Posted October 19, 2018 On 19/10/2018 at 14:27, pocster said: Hmmmmm How do I make a ‘fall’ in poured concrete ......? Expand Pour the concrete and us tamping guides set to be high at one end, to create a fall to the other end.
Declan52 Posted October 19, 2018 Posted October 19, 2018 Price wise what would be the cost in redoing the top by putting in another layer of edpm. Take the pavers and the bedding of and go with some one who uses this stuff on a regular basis. Wouldn't affect your heights either like another layer of concrete plus no more breaking out. Do your upstands and level out where you have broke out the concrete so it's nice and flat. The rubber guys ? come in work their magic and you end up with the rubber sealed around your edges and upstands. But done properly this time. Hard bit is finding a crew able to do this once and leave it leak free.
Triassic Posted October 19, 2018 Posted October 19, 2018 (edited) Sorry, I'm late to this particular party. Do you have a leak? If so, have you considered using an electronic leak detector? I've used them in the past and they do work! http://www.singleply.co.uk/electronic-leak-detection-for-roofs-advice-for-architects/ Edited October 19, 2018 by Triassic 1
Onoff Posted October 19, 2018 Posted October 19, 2018 On 19/10/2018 at 14:19, pocster said: Spoke to the architect- my idea has merit ! And yes @PeterW I could duck about around each window and never find the leak(s). Assuming I rip the lot up back to the rubber . Will the rubber come off the cement particle board ? . If not would a proper rubber roofer be happy to rubber over the top of existing rubber ?? Worry the ‘stilts’ will dig into rubber . My architect is adamant water proof concrete doesn’t exist ? Expand So your architect is a dick on two fronts? Specifying a non repairable design and assuming waterproof concrete doesn't exist? 1
Pocster Posted October 19, 2018 Author Posted October 19, 2018 On 19/10/2018 at 14:32, PeterW said: 1:40 you can shutter in easily so there should be no problem with less than that. Forget you had vac panel insulation in there - that won’t survive the concrete being ripped off it .... Any chance you can reconsider this as not being a driveway ..? Expand No chance. Was an important party of planning consent.
Onoff Posted October 19, 2018 Posted October 19, 2018 Easy to tamp concrete to falls and have it stay there and not slip. See p15 of my mega thread. 1
PeterW Posted October 19, 2018 Posted October 19, 2018 I think then you need plan B which is to take the pavers up and have a company come in and put a full EDPM membrane across the whole of the deck including sealing up the edges of the frames for the roof lights and then re-lay the the pavers onto this as otherwise you will be forever chasing rainbows with this one.
Pocster Posted October 19, 2018 Author Posted October 19, 2018 Anyway!; I've thought about this more. Potential plan. Rip all out back to rubber Remove rubber (I suspect that isn't possible) without damaging vac insulation under cement board. New Rubber roof ; easy enough to test Shutter 'parking area' Pour concrete in parking area (reinforced presumably) Pavers on parking area to fall for slope. (I know architect was concerned if this 'wedge' of concrete would spread the car load enough (after-all I'm trying to avoid concrete on rubber)) Stilts either side for pavers and walk on glass. 2 issues I can think of Would the stilts damage the rubber if they are sat on them with pavers above being walked on? No 'fall' is made in the side 'stilted' bits so water could pool. (Stilts have to be set on flat ground)
PeterW Posted October 19, 2018 Posted October 19, 2018 On 19/10/2018 at 14:19, pocster said: My architect is adamant water proof concrete doesn’t exist ? Expand Want to send him this link ...?? Waterproof concrete It’s not like it’s from the largest supplier of concrete products in the UK.... 1
Pocster Posted October 19, 2018 Author Posted October 19, 2018 (edited) On 19/10/2018 at 15:58, PeterW said: I think then you need plan B which is to take the pavers up and have a company come in and put a full EDPM membrane across the whole of the deck including sealing up the edges of the frames for the roof lights and then re-lay the the pavers onto this as otherwise you will be forever chasing rainbows with this one. Expand I just don't like concrete on the edpm; and I have to have that to spread the car load and protect the insulation. If I get a leak in the future I'm right back at square one ripping the whole lot up. If the edpm is exposed (apart from parking area) then it's accessible for repairs; thats got to be better surely? Edited October 19, 2018 by pocster
PeterW Posted October 19, 2018 Posted October 19, 2018 On 19/10/2018 at 16:02, pocster said: I just don't like concrete on the edpm; and I have to have that to spread the car load and protect the insulation. If I get a leak in the future I'm right back at square one ripping the whole lot up. If the edpm is exposed (apart from parking area) then it's accessible for repairs; thats got to be better surely? Expand You’re not reading it correctly pavers and sand off - then add the Membrane over top of existing concrete (repaired and smoothed) and then put sand and pavers back on. The idea with upstands won’t work with your current blocks as they are made for square pavers. 1
Pocster Posted October 19, 2018 Author Posted October 19, 2018 (edited) On 19/10/2018 at 16:10, PeterW said: You’re not reading it correctly pavers and sand off - then add the Membrane over top of existing concrete (repaired and smoothed) and then put sand and pavers back on. The idea with upstands won’t work with your current blocks as they are made for square pavers. Expand Will the up stands not sit next too each other with a rectangular long paver like mine is that the issue? It's not a real problem if thats correct - I can re use these pavers elsewhere (not above the dwelling) Ok; it's a thought. There's no way I can get the pavers off the concrete without damaging it. What's the best way to patch/fill the damage 35mm that sits above the old membrane? Pavers are bed in concrete - wasn't allowed sand! Edited October 19, 2018 by pocster
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