epsilonGreedy Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 Prior to mains power arriving on site I will need to power a 550w electric cement mixer, fortunately I already have a 1000w Honda suitcase generator. Will this cope with the start-up draw of the electric motor? The 2-man pro brickie team next door use a framed generator that is probably 2kw or 4kw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Punter Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 Does not sound man enough to me, but as you already have it you may as well give it a go. Try a half load in the mixer at first. Don't turn the mixer off when it is fully loaded or you may not get it started again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 If your genny is too small but new, can you Ebay and Trade Up? They are not massively expensive items. F Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epsilonGreedy Posted April 23, 2018 Author Share Posted April 23, 2018 48 minutes ago, Mr Punter said: ... as you already have it you may as well give it a go. Try a half load in the mixer at first. Will do, I have yet to order the mixer. I am currently mixing by hand and finding this educational, the last splash of water has a disproportionate effect on mortar consistency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 50 minutes ago, epsilonGreedy said: Will do, I have yet to order the mixer. I am currently mixing by hand and finding this educational, the last splash of water has a disproportionate effect on mortar consistency. Buy a petrol mixer instead and use the genny for light stuff as having one running 8 hours a day is horrific ... it will make you want to bury it in concrete. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epsilonGreedy Posted April 23, 2018 Author Share Posted April 23, 2018 1 minute ago, PeterW said: Buy a petrol mixer instead and use the genny for light stuff as having one running 8 hours a day is horrific ... it will make you want to bury it in concrete. Hmm yes this is a consideration. I am currently favouring electric because the price differential is £300 and it won't take a team of oxen to move. The pro brickie team next door only have their mixer powered up less than 25% of the time and I do not expect to outpace their daily brick rate. The mains consumer unit will be located in an attached single story utility room and I plan to advance the build of this in order to get mains power onsite asap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 I admire your courage at building your own house but I would seriously look at ready mixed mortar as otherwise you will have to gauge everything in each mix or it won’t match. There are places to make savings - the visible shell isn’t one of them ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epsilonGreedy Posted September 4, 2018 Author Share Posted September 4, 2018 (edited) Follow up: A 1000w suitcase generator has no problem driving my industry standard Belle 150l (orange) electric mixer. Edit: For the health & safety agent provocateurs. Original = When restarting with a fully loaded drum it is best to either switch the generator to fast idle or leave it in quiet mode and use muscle power to help the first 10 degrees or rotation. Update = Should you ever have to restart a loaded drum such as when your brickies take lunch early due to the oppressive 32 degree heat and 30 mins later you have to "liven up the gobbo", then a small generator should be switched to fast idle mode to help it deliver the higher initial load. The neighbours probably appreciate the quiet generator if I am working late in the day. Edited September 4, 2018 by epsilonGreedy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell griffiths Posted September 4, 2018 Share Posted September 4, 2018 Easy don’t turn it off with a loaded drum why mix what you don’t need mix a load and get it on your spotboards mix another and put it in the barrow with a damp sack over it fill mixer with water turn off mixer simples init. Its bricklaying, not nuclear fusion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redoctober Posted September 4, 2018 Share Posted September 4, 2018 2 hours ago, epsilonGreedy said: Follow up: A 1000w suitcase generator has no problem driving my industry standard Belle 150l (orange) electric mixer. When restarting with a fully loaded drum it is best to either switch the generator to fast idle or leave it in quiet mode and use muscle power to help the first 10 degrees or rotation. The neighbours probably appreciate the quiet generator if I am working late in the day. Our builders use an electric mixer, powered by mains electricity supplied from a temp power supply in our car port. No issues encountered and I have seen then bundle a few stones into it at the end of the day, with a good splash of water, to clean it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack Posted September 4, 2018 Share Posted September 4, 2018 35 minutes ago, Russell griffiths said: Its bricklaying, not nuclear fusion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epsilonGreedy Posted September 4, 2018 Author Share Posted September 4, 2018 41 minutes ago, Russell griffiths said: mix another and put it in the barrow with a damp sack over it fill mixer with water At least 28% of your post was useful. Not sure why you felt the need to be so condescending. Various pro's visiting my site have been genuinely intrigued to see a small suitcase 1000w generator driving a mixer, in my part of the world they use larger noisier frame generators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epsilonGreedy Posted September 4, 2018 Author Share Posted September 4, 2018 38 minutes ago, Redoctober said: Our builders use an electric mixer, powered by mains electricity supplied from a temp power supply in our car port. No issues encountered and I have seen then bundle a few stones into it at the end of the day, with a good splash of water, to clean it out. So will I once mains power arrives on site, much the preferred option. When starting this thread 4 months ago I did not know whether I would need to buy a new generator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack Posted September 4, 2018 Share Posted September 4, 2018 40 minutes ago, epsilonGreedy said: At least 28% of your post was useful. To you, perhaps, but this thread will be seen by others in the future who may find that and the remaining 72% of his contribution useful when read in conjunction with your own contributions. 40 minutes ago, epsilonGreedy said: Not sure why you felt the need to be so condescending. Various pro's visiting my site have been genuinely intrigued to see a small suitcase 1000w generator driving a mixer, in my part of the world they use larger noisier frame generators. Non sequitur. His point isn't that a small generator can't drive a mixer, it's that there shouldn't ever be a need to start a full mixer. That fact has clearly eluded you, since you acknowledge that you do restart a full mixer. The instructions that came with the bell mixer I hired said that you should only ever add materials to a moving mixer, and should avoid restarting the mixer when full. [Edited to add:] Found belle mixer instructions: "Always start the drum rotating before loading. Do not load a concrete mix into a stationary drum. Starting the mixer with a full load would be difficult and would strain the drum shaft." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epsilonGreedy Posted September 4, 2018 Author Share Posted September 4, 2018 2 minutes ago, jack said: The instructions that came with the bell mixer I hired said that you should only ever add materials to a moving mixer, and should avoid restarting the mixer when full. Avoid being the key word. I was warning that when starting a loaded mixer a small generator will struggle unless switched to fast idle mode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted September 4, 2018 Share Posted September 4, 2018 I think the comments here are a bit less clear than they need to be.... To to use a mixer properly, start it empty and stop it empty. It puts less stress on motors, belts, engines and gearboxes and will prolong the life of the mixer. Its also safer as hand starting a drum is a recipe for a broken wrist or worse if you get something caught on the drum or vanes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack Posted September 4, 2018 Share Posted September 4, 2018 14 minutes ago, epsilonGreedy said: Avoid being the key word. I was warning that when starting a loaded mixer a small generator will struggle unless switched to fast idle mode. Repeating (and adding emphasis to) the quote from my edit made before you replied: "Always start the drum rotating before loading. Do not load a concrete mix into a stationary drum. Starting the mixer with a full load would be difficult and would strain the drum shaft." So can you do it? Sure, it's your mixer, do what you like. But the manufacturer says you're not supposed to do it, there are clear risks associated with doing it, and (as explained by @Russell griffiths) you don't have to do it, so... why do it? And will you pay for the repair of another member's mixer when they follow your guidance and something breaks, bends or melts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epsilonGreedy Posted September 4, 2018 Author Share Posted September 4, 2018 7 minutes ago, jack said: And will you pay for the repair of another member's mixer when they follow your guidance and something breaks, bends or melts? I was not advocating hand assisted starting of a loaded drum, I was highlighting where the limited oomph of a small generator becomes apparent. I also said that setting such a generator to fast idle, (the hare icon) on a Honda, overcomes this limitation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack Posted September 4, 2018 Share Posted September 4, 2018 Just now, epsilonGreedy said: I was not advocating hand assisted starting of a loaded drum You sure? 4 hours ago, epsilonGreedy said: When restarting with a fully loaded drum it is best to either switch the generator to fast idle or leave it in quiet mode and use muscle power to help the first 10 degrees or rotation. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epsilonGreedy Posted September 4, 2018 Author Share Posted September 4, 2018 26 minutes ago, PeterW said: Its also safer as hand starting a drum is a recipe for a broken wrist or worse if you get something caught on the drum or vanes. Noted. I will be more cautious near the beast particularly as the weather cools and I will be wearing more clothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epsilonGreedy Posted September 4, 2018 Author Share Posted September 4, 2018 13 minutes ago, jack said: You sure? When I started a thread here specifically about cement mixer health & safety where were you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell griffiths Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 (edited) 5 hours ago, Russell griffiths said: Easy don’t turn it off with a loaded drum why mix what you don’t need mix a load and get it on your spotboards mix another and put it in the barrow with a damp sack over it fill mixer with water turn off mixer simples init. Its bricklaying, not nuclear fusion I see nothing condescending in that at all plain simple instructions i have taught many a 16 year old lad to use a mixer if they turned it off loaded they would get yelled at there is no need to turn it off loaded. Follow my. Instructions like a good lad and you will be fine. Now thats condescending. Edited September 5, 2018 by Russell griffiths Mess up 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 Nothing you wrote was in anyway condescending, @Russell griffiths. The problem is really with people who have little or no experience of working day in, day out, with mixers advocating something that's out of the normal safe way the vast majority use them. I was shown how to use a mixer by a builder, when I was about 13 or 14. It was a petrol mixer, and I can remember him giving me the same instructions about always starting it empty, and that was over 50 years ago. Not leaving a mix in a stationary mixer, but tipping it into a barrow was also normal practice, even back then. This has nothing to do with generators, either, it's just the standard, safe, way to use a mixer, always has been and always will be (until someone invents something else to mix mortar and concrete). 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 (edited) 10 hours ago, epsilonGreedy said: When I started a thread here specifically about cement mixer health & safety where were you? [Deleted my reply, as this is just getting silly now.] Edited September 5, 2018 by jack 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epsilonGreedy Posted September 5, 2018 Author Share Posted September 5, 2018 1 hour ago, JSHarris said: Nothing you wrote was in anyway condescending, @Russell griffiths. Ofcourse it was condescending. It was such a self indulgent exercise in condensation only those already expert in cement mixer operation would have deduced the underlying motivation for his post i.e. not to restart a loaded mixer because of safety and mechanical concerns. These points are now clearly stated in the public domain because of my follow ups. You should be thanking me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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