Council tax

[nod]

Not wanting to hijack Peter's post

This just landed on the mat

What a lot of hassle to get to this

 

[Ferdinand]

Like it.

 

So are you going to Appeal his decision? 

[Gone West]

42 minutes ago, nod said:

What a lot of hassle to get to this

Let's hope you get a refund without any problems. I'm sure if it was a private company doing this sort of thing it would be illegal but local government can get away with it. The local council tax department recommends a band to the VOA hoping it won't be challenged and mostly seems to get away with it. A new bungalow built next door to here has had a ridiculously high band assigned to it and the owner is selling it and doesn't appear to be worried. We'll tell the new owners that the banding is two above the original so they can challenge it.

[Onoff]

22 minutes ago, PeterStarck said:

Let's hope you get a refund without any problems. I'm sure if it was a private company doing this sort of thing it would be illegal but local government can get away with it. The local council tax department recommends a band to the VOA hoping it won't be challenged and mostly seems to get away with it. A new bungalow built next door to here has had a ridiculously high band assigned to it and the owner is selling it and doesn't appear to be worried. We'll tell the new owners that the banding is two above the original so they can challenge it.

 

Did/will your banding valuation change from what it is for the original bungalow?

[Gone West]

@Onoff The council have recommended a band E and I have suggested a band D. The other two cottages in the area that have three bedrooms are band D. The original bungalow was a C.

Edited March 2, 2018 by PeterStarck

[nod]

4 hours ago, Ferdinand said:

Like it.

 

So are you going to Appeal his decision? 

Small victory

 it a relief

[Ferdinand]

40 minutes ago, nod said:

Small victory

 it a relief

 

Yep. Congratulations,

[nod]

Just had a call from the Council tax collection informing me that our build is eligible for Council tax levy

I told them no water no electric toilets etc

 

They said if they deem it possible to make it liveable then it is.

 

Some advice would be appreciated 

 

Edited March 12, 2018 by jack
Merged from new thread on same topic

[jack]

Bloody jobsworths. How can they charge you council tax on an unbanded property?

 

Did you tell them that the Valuation Office has recently removed your property from the council tax valuation list and that you have a letter proving this?

[nod]

11 minutes ago, jack said:

Bloody jobsworths. How can they charge you council tax on an unbanded property?

 

Did you tell them that the Valuation Office has recently removed your property from the council tax valuation list and that you have a letter proving this?

Yes they said that the valuation office had no right to remove it 

 

the analogy she use was that she has recently had an extension on her house Hasn’t been signed off by BC Still has to pay CT

Condescending or what 

I need to be pretty sure of my rights

[Ferdinand]

I might be tempted to a la Jeremy write to the legal department, or get a solicitor who knows to write and tell them what the law says.

 

But that will cost money.

 

A neat way might be to write or email despairingly and tell the Valuation Officer what the Council lady said (with email address ?), and ask them to forward a copy of the decision direct. Perhaps you could provoke the Council lady to confirm it by email first - for forwarding the 'neigh' that came from the horses mouth to the VOA for a response. They might not do it, mind.

F

Edited March 12, 2018 by Ferdinand

[vivienz]

What a load of old tosh!  Presumably, they're peeved because of your letter from the VO.  Just because something can be made habitable, that doesn't mean it is.  Ask them to put their decision in writing and with the justification for it; at the very least you can stall them whilst you get some more opinion on defending your corner.

 

Would it be worth giving the VO a quick call to see if they can advise as to whose opinion hold the trump card?  In any case, as Jack says, if it's not banded, how can they know what to charge anyway?  Grrrr!

Edited March 12, 2018 by vivienz
and another thought!

[jack]

9 minutes ago, nod said:

the analogy she use was that she has recently had an extension on her house Hasn’t been signed off by BC Still has to pay CT

 

Stupid and irrelevant analogy. Her house is a dwelling and presumably she's living and and using the extension. Your house is not a dwelling and literally cannot be lived in. 

 

9 minutes ago, nod said:

Yes they said that the valuation office had no right to remove it 

 

That's pretty funny. Isn't the valuation office literally the only body with the right to remove it?

 

One possible way of proceeding:

 

Make sure you've cancelled any direct debits you might have had in relation to council tax.

 

Get them to put their position in writing. Pretty sure someone calling from the council isn't sufficient - insist that they put their legal position in writing, because as far as we can tell, it's bollocks.

 

Since they can't take money from you, they'll have to start legal proceedings. They aren't going to do that without being sure of their legal position.

 

Maybe contact the officer at the VOA and see whether they have any advice?

 

What's your local paper like? They often like a human interest story like this.

 

 

[nod]

The young lady was reluctant to give me her surname

and refused point blank to put anything in writing

Reluctantly agreed after 35 minutes of going round in circles 

To outline what she had said 

Still waiting for an email

[Jml]

7 minutes ago, nod said:

Yes they said that the valuation office had no right to remove it 

 

the analogy she use was that she has recently had an extension on her house Hasn’t been signed off by BC Still has to pay CT

Condescending or what 

I need to be pretty sure of my rights

 

As far as i am aware the council do not revise council tax banding even if extension is completed and signed off.  The extension is only taken into account when the property is next sold and then they may revise the banding.

[Ferdinand]

10 minutes ago, nod said:

The young lady was reluctant to give me her surname

and refused point blank to put anything in writing

Reluctantly agreed after 35 minutes of going round in circles 

To outline what she had said 

Still waiting for an email

 

OK. 

 

Email lady with what you think she said. Or to reception with a request to forward.

Put a time limit on it ("please confirm that my understanding is correct by date X").

On day X+1 email the Head of Department as has been suggested, with the account, and "requesting clarification" or "confirmation that the Valuation Office control the list, and that the Council will stop trying to charge CT on my property").

 

Potentially your local councillor may help with this.

 

Or wait until the system grinds through.

 

Ferdinand

 

[jack]

Nothing can happen unless they put their position in writing. Until then, it's just some idiot trying to take advantage of you on the phone.

 

Personally I'd wait until she sends the promised email. If she doesn't, that's the end of it. If she does, then you have something specific to respond to. 

 

If you feel like you need to do something, Ferdinand has the right idea.

[nod]

Thanks for the quick replies.

Great to have your support 

Having listened to green sleeves for 25 minutes I’ve managed to speak to her again

She is really P off with the letter from the VOA 

Even more so that the VOA has contacted them after speaking to me today asking why she thinks they have no right to remove it from the CT list

I got the wrong end of the stick 

She never told me that 

Hope that conversation was taped

[jack]

1 hour ago, nod said:

She is really P off with the letter from the VOA 

 

Good.

 

She has a job that presumably requires her to know the basics of the relevant laws and procedures. If she can't be bothered to learn those she should be sacked.

[nod]

I did mention that when BC did his pre plaster inspection last week

He said that I would need a working kitchen and toilet to be deemed habitable

she replied that’s rubbish I'll speak to him

Habitable and rateable are totally different she added

Are the rules clear?

Her supervisor is going to ring me in the morning

It would be good to what is the correct criteria for levying a tax on the property 

I can’t believe any of what she is saying is correct 

 

[Jeremy Harris]

10 minutes ago, nod said:

I did mention that when BC did his pre plaster inspection last week

He said that I would need a working kitchen and toilet to be deemed habitable

she replied that’s rubbish I'll speak to him

Habitable and rateable are totally different she added

Are the rules clear?

Her supervisor is going to ring me in the morning

It would be good to what is the correct criteria for levying a tax on the property 

I can’t believe any of what she is saying is correct 

 

 

 

The law is the law, and I think I gave links to the case law defining a rateable hereditament in the other thread. 

 

Council tax cannot be charged unless a house is on the valuation register.

 

It can only be put on the valuation register by the VOA.

 

It can only be valued and placed on the register by the VOA if it meets the criteria laid down in the previously quoted case law, and the easy case to use is "Does the house have a potable water supply or not?"  If the answer to that is "no", then it is, by law, not a rateable hereditament and so cannot be valued for Council Tax purposes and placed on the register.

 

There are other criteria that are either defined in case law, or could be argued as placing the house outside the definition of a rateable hereditament; I only went as far as the water supply one as that was easy for me to control and prove if challenged.

 

FWIW, the moment I started to quote the relevant case law to the council tax woman I was passed to their legal department, and after that the council just backed off very quickly indeed.  They just sent me a very politely worded letter asking if I would please let them know when I considered the house was sufficiently complete to be valued for Council Tax.  I delayed this right up to the completion inspection, by delaying getting the official public health water test (we're on a borehole), even though I knew from a private test that the water was OK.  I only did this because the attitude of the council had got right up my nose, when they sent a snooper around..................

[jack]

1 hour ago, JSHarris said:

It can only be put on the valuation register by the VOA.

 

Exactly. There is no reason for this person to even be giving her thoughts on the rules, because she isn't the one with the right to apply them, and the people who do apply them have already made their decision.

 

I'd put her on speaker next time she calls and tell her you're tired of being lied to and are recording the conversation so that you have evidence to support the formal complaint you'll be making if they don't stop harassing you.

[nod]

I’ve just spoken to her

 

she told me it is back on the CT register 

I told her that I’d spoken to to the VOA and they have told me it was removed ten days ago and nothing has changed 

her reply was we don’t need the VOA We I HAVE PUT IT BACK ON

It was at that point I told her I was recording our conversation

We must of had bad signal as the line went dead

Ive tried to call back but her line was busy 

[jack]

It'd be funny if it weren't such poor behaviour.

 

Have you asked the VOA for confirmation that the council doesn't have the right to charge you CT now that you aren't on the register? If they agree, I'd be moving on to making a formal complaint with your council. Harassing you to pay charges they have no authority to levy is borderline fraud.

[Onoff]

Raise a "Stage 1 Complaint" (based on incompetence) against the council for quoting the wrong information etc and the stress it's caused you etc. Their internal mechanism kicks in by default and fur flies. Successfully done it myself with advice from my barrister brother.