RHI - Ar*e about face?

[NSS]

Okay, I'll admit it, I used a MCS approved installer and have just completed the RHI registration. I'll receive ₤111 per quarter (index linked) for the next 7 years, so something circa ₤3,300 in total. Was it worth it for the additional install cost? For me, I think it probably was, but the scheme does seem somewhat arse about face in that the more energy efficient the home, the lower the RHI payment received as it's calculated from your predicted energy usage on the EPC. Surely it would encourage the build of more energy efficient homes if the reverse were the case?

 

 

[Trw144]

Yes, it is arse about face but it’s aim was nt to make new builds greener, but improve the emissions from our current housing stock. As with any subsidy scheme, it gets taken advantage of and I know of numerous examples where the homeowner got the Epc undertaken for their RHI calculation, and then made all the energy improvements to their property (windows, insulation etc). Making new builds “green” should come from raising the bar of regulation as, as most of us on here are aware, minimum building regulations are nt particularly high.

 

My personal opinion is that energy is too cheap in the UK and that is why our housing stock is so poor in terms of energy usage. Increase taxes on energy and this would change. Admittedly this probably is nt a vote winner as, in the short/medium term, its going to hit those on lower incomes harder.

Edited March 5, 2018 by Trw144

[IanR]

26 minutes ago, NSS said:

Okay, I'll admit it, I used a MCS approved installer and have just completed the RHI registration. 

 

 

 

When did you submit yours? I submitted mine back in September, but still not had mine reviewed. Keep calling and they say they have a huge backlog.

[JamesP]

Can you let us know what equipment did you register and what was your predicted energy use, just wondering is it worth it as I will be  in a similar position soon.

 

[NSS]

25 minutes ago, IanR said:

 

When did you submit yours? I submitted mine back in September, but still not had mine reviewed. Keep calling and they say they have a huge backlog.

Submitted it online last Wednesday and had an email within minutes to confirm it had been received and another one last Friday to say my application had been successful and I'll receive my first payment on 28th May.

[NSS]

23 minutes ago, JamesP said:

Can you let us know what equipment did you register and what was your predicted energy use, just wondering is it worth it as I will be  in a similar position soon.

 

It's a 9kw Panasonic Aquarea ASHP. Our EPC is 96 and our predicted heat demand is;

 

Space Heating - 3,415kWh/annum

DHW - 2,290kWh/annum

[ProDave]

I have for a long time believed the only people that benefit from these schemes is the installer that can charge a premium because he has the magic bit of paper to enable him to sign it off. If you are lucky, the RHI payment will cover that extra cost, so it will not have cost you any more.

 

The scheme is bonkers. I am not bothering with it.

[NSS]

1 hour ago, ProDave said:

I have for a long time believed the only people that benefit from these schemes is the installer that can charge a premium because he has the magic bit of paper to enable him to sign it off. If you are lucky, the RHI payment will cover that extra cost, so it will not have cost you any more.

 

The scheme is bonkers. I am not bothering with it.

Hi Dave, I suspect the recent (significant) rise in the RHI rate for ASHPs may have changed that dynamic somewhat.

[joe90]

10 hours ago, ProDave said:

I have for a long time believed the only people that benefit from these schemes is the installer that can charge a premium because he has the magic bit of paper to enable him to sign it off. If you are lucky, the RHI payment will cover that extra cost, so it will not have cost you any more.

 

The scheme is bonkers. I am not bothering with it.

 

Nor me, got my ASHP off Ebay, my neighbour is plumbing it for me,( I did his drive with my JCB)  done all the donkey work myself. My running costs should be minimal ?so payments would be small.

[gravelld]

Apparently according to https://renewable-heat-calculator.service.gov.uk we can claim £8,400 over seven years on the installation of an ASHP (not including inflation). My guess this round figure is because we're at some sort of maximum.

 

What's the premium on an MCS install of an ASHP?

 

Edit: looks like I can increase the amount if we get an ASHP with a better SPF.

Edited March 6, 2018 by gravelld

[Jeremy Harris]

What you get depends largely on how big your heating requirement is.  By using the real figures for our house, the RHI was around £85 a year for seven years.  If I'd bent the rules and pretended that our heating requirement was a lot higher, then we could have got a larger RHI payment.  Two of the heat pump installers we approached for a quote (before I found a cheap unit on ebay) "officially estimated" our heating requirement as being between 10 and 30 times greater than it really is.................

[gravelld]

Yeah but there's a maximum of 20,000kWh you can claim for I think... we're over that. After that it looks like it's just the SPF that can alter the payout, which apparently is calculated by the installer.

 

Sounds like no opportunities to game the system whatsoever. 

[ProDave]

Based on the figures on my design SAP I would get £2030 over 7 years. *

 

I am absolutely certain that getting an MCS installer to fit a system will cost a good deal more than £2030 extra compared to me DIY installing a heat pump.

 

* I would actually get less than that, because my design SAP got the roof make up wrong so the quoted U value for the roof is too poor. When that is corrected on the as built SAP the amount of RHI I would receive would go down.

 

The other "odd" thing in my deign SAP is for space heating they have used an "efficiency" figure of 175% which sounds like they only expect a COP of 1.75 from the ASHP feeding under floor heating. So I expect my actual bills to be lower than this estimate as I hope for a better COP than that..   They used 250% efficiency for DHW which sounds more realistic expecting a COP of 2.5 for heating DHW from the ASHP.

 

So correcting the roof U value, and using a more realistic COP for space heating and my heat requirement will be a lot lower and hence RHI payment a lot lower.

 

[gravelld]

It's odd they think that DHW will be more efficient than the lower temps required for UFH?

[Jeremy Harris]

1 hour ago, ProDave said:

Based on the figures on my design SAP I would get £2030 over 7 years. *

 

I am absolutely certain that getting an MCS installer to fit a system will cost a good deal more than £2030 extra compared to me DIY installing a heat pump.

 

* I would actually get less than that, because my design SAP got the roof make up wrong so the quoted U value for the roof is too poor. When that is corrected on the as built SAP the amount of RHI I would receive would go down.

 

The other "odd" thing in my deign SAP is for space heating they have used an "efficiency" figure of 175% which sounds like they only expect a COP of 1.75 from the ASHP feeding under floor heating. So I expect my actual bills to be lower than this estimate as I hope for a better COP than that..   They used 250% efficiency for DHW which sounds more realistic expecting a COP of 2.5 for heating DHW from the ASHP.

 

So correcting the roof U value, and using a more realistic COP for space heating and my heat requirement will be a lot lower and hence RHI payment a lot lower.

 

 

 

I worked out that the "MCS installation premium" for a typical monoblock ASHP was around £2500, so your guess looks spot on, you'd never ever recover the "MCS premium" from the RHI, so it would be pointless, just as it was for us.