Locks - key only or key & turn cylinder?

[JohnBishop]

Hi All,

I hope you are well.
I am thinking about replacing the locks and have a big dilemma regarding what kind of cylinder to go for.
I think for the front and back doors key & turn cylinder makes more sense however is this secure considering that someone clever could turn it through the letter hole?

Also for a clear glass back doors if burglars manage to break in by smashing the glass turn cylinder would make their life easier as then they can open the doors from the inside without a key.
What do you think?

Edited 22 hours ago by JohnBishop

[ProDave]

Inside turn for us.  Can't be bothered fiddling with a key to lock doors from inside.  (if I had to the key would remain in the lock)

 

If the weakest link to entry is breaking a triple glazed glass unit, you are not doing bad.

[-rick-]

17 minutes ago, JohnBishop said:

Is this secure considering that someone clever could turn it through the letter hole?

 

If it's an issue you could always get a letter box that contains the post (prevents access to the turn cylinder). Will stop stuff dropping on the floor as well which saves bending down to get it. These have downsides too so depends on your circumstances whether it works for you but is an option.

[saveasteading]

34 minutes ago, JohnBishop said:

What do you think?

Insurers generally want a 5 lever mortice.

So as long as you dont leave it within reach through letter box or broken window, they wont be able to use it.

I like to have a 'yale' too just for night time security and ease, but use the mortice when going out.

[-rick-]

4 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

Insurers generally want a 5 lever mortice.

So as long as you dont leave it within reach through letter box or broken window, they wont be able to use it.

I like to have a 'yale' too just for night time security and ease, but use the mortice when going out.

 

Mortice is the minimum. Modern euro cylinder locks (assuming you get the right spec) are considered superior (and accepted by insurers in all locations AFAIK) especially if it's installed in a multipoint lock. I would always prefer the eurocylinder as they are easy to change if you ever need to change the keys. Can be keyed alike all round the house and if you want to get really fancy you can get a master keyed set with grouped or independent locks for the doors (allowing you to give some people limited access and others full access).

 

Obviously the more sophisticated setups are more for commercial use but there are uses at home and you can order sets online for not huge money.

Edited 22 hours ago by -rick-

[Super_Paulie]

I've got the thumb turner on my porch inside composite door. No letterbox so it was a no-brainer. Never lock the "front door" to the porch as we get deliveries to it all the time, but that's a normal key lock each side.

[Spinny]

My new doors were fitted over 2 years ago now.

I had never needed to use them for access from the outside with the key. When I finally had a need for that I was surprised to discover that if the key had been used to lock the door from the inside, it was not possible to then use the key to unlock the door from the outside. To unlock the door from the outside with the key, you must first have locked it from the outside also.

Looks like they may have a privacy euro cylinder - never knew such things existed.

The fear I have these days is of locking myself out.

 

Not sure, maybe this means you could install a privacy euro cylinder such that if you lock the door with a key from the outside, a thumb turn on the inside would then not allow it to be unlocked ?

[ProDave]

39 minutes ago, Spinny said:

Looks like they may have a privacy euro cylinder - never knew such things existed.

The fear I have these days is of locking myself out.

 

Not sure, maybe this means you could install a privacy euro cylinder such that if you lock the door with a key from the outside, a thumb turn on the inside would then not allow it to be unlocked ?

How did you get in without unlocking a door from the outside all that time?

 

Locking yourself out by mistake surely ended with the demise of the Yale night latch.  You can't slam lock a euro cylinder lock by mistake, you have to lock it with a key once shut, from inside or out.

 

All my locks, having been locked from inside can be unlocked by key from outside.

 

The exception is the sliding door on our sun room.  It does not have a thumb lock inside. If you lock it from the inside and LEAVE THE KEY IN THE LOCK you can't open it from the outside.

 

So I guess that is your issue if the key is in the lock inside you can't get in.  But I still want to know how you get out of the house to be in that situation with all doors?

[-rick-]

56 minutes ago, Spinny said:

The fear I have these days is of locking myself out.

 

Why not buy and fit a new cylinder? Super easy and cheap to do.

[Spinny]

37 minutes ago, ProDave said:

How did you get in without unlocking a door from the outside all that time?

I have other doors which are not new.

 

On the new doors, it is not a case of leaving a key in the lock on the inside preventing key entry from outside. You cannot gain key entry if the door was locked from the inside and the key removed.

 

23 minutes ago, -rick- said:

Why not buy and fit a new cylinder? Super easy and cheap to do.

Well yes, but far too many other things to finish first.

 

Being dependent on a single door for entry is a risk, should the lock fail or key snap off. Or indeed if the door slams shut and you have to go after a spare key to re-enter when an ephemeral plumber visits.

[JohnBishop]

3 hours ago, Spinny said:

My new doors were fitted over 2 years ago now.

I had never needed to use them for access from the outside with the key. When I finally had a need for that I was surprised to discover that if the key had been used to lock the door from the inside, it was not possible to then use the key to unlock the door from the outside. To unlock the door from the outside with the key, you must first have locked it from the outside also.

Looks like they may have a privacy euro cylinder - never knew such things existed.

The fear I have these days is of locking myself out.

 

Not sure, maybe this means you could install a privacy euro cylinder such that if you lock the door with a key from the outside, a thumb turn on the inside would then not allow it to be unlocked ?

thanks for pointing this out. As I lean toward the key only solution I forgot about this limitation.
 

[JohnBishop]

2 hours ago, ProDave said:

How did you get in without unlocking a door from the outside all that time?

 

Locking yourself out by mistake surely ended with the demise of the Yale night latch.  You can't slam lock a euro cylinder lock by mistake, you have to lock it with a key once shut, from inside or out.

 

All my locks, having been locked from inside can be unlocked by key from outside.

 

The exception is the sliding door on our sun room.  It does not have a thumb lock inside. If you lock it from the inside and LEAVE THE KEY IN THE LOCK you can't open it from the outside.

 

So I guess that is your issue if the key is in the lock inside you can't get in.  But I still want to know how you get out of the house to be in that situation with all doors?

is this a limitation of any lock that you cannot unlock it if a key is inserted on the other side or a limitation of some older locks?
I lean towards the key only solution but may reconsider.
I reckon this locked out situation only applies when a person exited through e.g. the front door but want to e.g. sneak back into the house through back doors so wife won't notice.
or you lost the key to the front door and want to get in from the back.
I reckon to mitigate that you can have the locks keyed alike.

[Mr Punter]

4 hours ago, ProDave said:

You can't slam lock a euro cylinder lock by mistake

 

We have slam lock doors from RK Doors.  If the door shuts behind you, you need a key to get back in.  There is no lever handle on the outside.