Renovating 200 year old property in Gloucestershire

[nobody]

We're first timers in our sixties, renovating a 200 year old Gloucestershire property as our last home.

It's very basic (no central heating, damp) with a stone centre, brick semi-added pre 1860 and s 20th C. extension at each end.

Removing the plaster and some ceiling my wife has revealed questionable [cough] building techniques which explain some of the cracks and a patched up Inglenook which we plan to restore.

Early days but we have a builder and architect for a garden room style extension. We have lots of ideas and plenty of time, but of course not enough money :-)

 

If you've done anything like this by all means tell us we're barmy, it just say hi.

 

Met a couple this morning and got chatting about this, and they recommended this forum highly. I'm learning so much useful stuff from others offline and online. For others I can recommend Mastodon (a non commercial social network - no ads or algorithm getting in the way). Posting questions there has been a great help.

[Nickfromwales]

Hi, and welcome

 

Are you in a conservation area, or area of outstanding natural beauty?

 

Listed?

 

We thrive on info here, so get the fingers tapping on the keyboard and then ideas and info can be forthcoming! 
 

🙂

[nobody]

Thanks Nick (big fan of Wales here).

 

Neither AONB or listed but we are in the Severn Estuary SAC. I think that's mainly concerned with new build but IANAL.

 

Please keep asking, I'm not sure what's helpful. My usual tendency is to provide too much info but feeling my way here so that's helpful.

 

I've returned to looking at MVAC with Solar + battery, so interested to hear good and bad experiences with those in old buildings. We have some 40cm walls (mostly internal), 12cm ceiling spaces, and only one loft space that could house the central unit, but I'm wondering if a small diameter high velocity air duct system is feasible, maybe supplemented with Solo internal units (eg Panasonic Solo RAC). I don't like split AC because it is so out of keeping with the character we want to keep (beams, old floors, doors, dodgy staircases and stone walls).

 

Current plan is:

- garden room extension to living room

- replaster throughout (Diathonite)

- replace ceilings

- rewiring + home automation

- damp course

- dig out and insulate concrete floors 

- restore Inglenook, solid fuel stove 

- double glazing

- hot water taps + electric showers (no tank or hot water plumbing) 

- heating tbd. No mains gas so it's heat pump or oil and we hope former is feasible.

 

There are other things of course but that's the core. Any suggestions to look at that help us keep things old and quirky appreciated. We have old wooden internal doors covered with lead paint we wish to keep for example. 

 

I'm technical (physics and computer) but have no experience of builds although my dad was in the trade (stories there!). My wife is the aestheticist, and doing the heavy lifting while I do research and spreadsheets, which is weird [laughing]. We need more emojis here btw.

 

Edited Friday at 23:22 by nobody
Typo

[Russell griffiths]

Morning I’m in Cirencester 

first question. Why electric showers. 
would be my last choice, unvented cylinder and nice thermostatic mixer shower will provide good shower pressure and loads of hot water. 

[saveasteading]

2 hours ago, Russell griffiths said:

Why electric showers. 

A good one is an expensive luxury, but divide by number of showers and £800 becomes pennies per use. We have an aqualisa. Press a button outside and it starts. When the light stops flashing you walk straight into it.

I realise how good it is whenever I have to use a lesser one.

[saveasteading]

9 hours ago, nobody said:

I'm not sure what's helpful

Welcome.

Neither are we until we know more. Eventually we will get there.

What size? Number of rooms?

In approx terms does it feel ample in size?

 

The stone centre: is that an original building that has been encased in new?

There may be construction and damp challenges.

[nobody]

4 hours ago, Russell griffiths said:

Why electric showers

If also using electric hot water taps, it eliminates the need for a tank, hot water plumbing and any questions about heat pumps wrt hot water. Also I expect more reliability and lower maintenance than alternatives. Unless you use a lot of hot water (we won't) I think it's a good option for us. 

 

2 hours ago, saveasteading said:

There may be construction and damp challenges.

Yes, and we await the visit from a structural engineer. There's lots of damp, some decay but I'm optimistic based on the reaction of two builders and the original survey. My wife has removed a lot of the plaster and we can see cracks and past repairs which hasn't yet alarmed our builder or architect, but I expect we'll have strengthening and support work to do in more than one area. I couldn't believe what was holding up the gable end two story stone wall above a two meter gap made to create a snug with window to the garden: a single plank of thickness one to two inches. We sleep better with an Accro prop in there now! (Not that we sleep in the building).

 

We plan to dig out, insulate and level the mismatched, damp concrete floors throughout.

 

More info:

Yes, a two story stone 200+ yr old one up one down with an old loft conversion. On the front has been added another smaller bungalow with loft conversion which was a separate semi detached dwelling (1800's we think, solid brick walls). On the side of that, and the opposite side of the stone building are 1980's single story extensions (block work, no cavity we think). Everything is rendered outside and a 50yr (?) old concrete tile roof which is structurally sound but leaks where the valleys meet our neighbour's roof each side of the old buildings. 

 

I know photos would help but am reluctant to post such. 

 

Ground floor: main entrance (from N facing open garden on a bend) to Kitchen/Shower room (1980's ext), door Living Room 1 (Inglenook), door Living Room 2 (second chimney), wide sliding door to Study (1980's ext) with exit to garden.

 

We want some more space downstairs, so will extend the gable end of the stone building. The kitchen/shower room will be made into one larger kitchen with patio doors to a small courtyard - the only wall that gets sun most of the day.

 

The living room is dark and has large Inglenook (bricked up for support due to broken beam). Too large for the room, so we will restore, and extend into the N facing garden: awaiting designs for an oak framed Garden Room with lots of glass, pitched roof matching the gable end from which it will extend. The "study" will have doors to the adjacent Living Room 2, and the Garden Room, making it a GF bath+shower room for when we can't get upstairs.

 

First floor: three rooms, the central one to be a smaller bath+shower room/ensuite to one of the upstairs bedrooms. 

 

Above this is a loft room. At this level the stone of the Gable End becomes solid brick, with a window with tremendous view, so we plan a Juliet balcony here. (Noone is overlooked, so the architect thinks the only likely planning issues will be with the extension because this is visible from the road - our whole garden is exposed though as we're on a bend and don't have any space behind on our quadrant shaped plot. We plan a high Yew hedge and internal fences/trellis to make it private.)

 

My main concerns are about combining meeting our needs now and as we grow old, with maintaining it's quirky character (three staircases, old floorboards and wooden doors etc) while ensuring it will be a home long after we're gone. Affordably obviously! 

 

We're considering leaving some of the stone walls in Living Room 1 exposed: around the Inglenook is a party wall, and between living room and extension - so not external walls. We're also considering removing outside render from the stone gable end, perhaps rendering only over the brick of the loft room wall. Decisions for later. 

 

Sucking of teeth welcome if accompanied by explanations .

 

 We're completely new to this but have the luxury of not being under time pressure and able to live nearby for some time.

 

Thanks if you read all this!

Edited yesterday at 10:56 by nobody

[saveasteading]

So the original has been rxtended, not enclosed?

Is the stonework dressed or rubble? 

 

Mortared in place, pointed?

It might help dampness to leave some exposed.

 

You need to find how deep the footings are. The steading was only about 300 below ground in total.

You can't excavate much below that.

 

The inglenook may be supporting the building. This is SE work. Esp at a party wall as there may be a shared chimney AND you don't know what the neighbours have done.

It is scarily common for people to remove a chimney at GF  leaving the chimney hanging.

 

Understood re photos but some closeups perhaps?

 

Another important issue is door heights. If you raise the floor can you get through without ducking?

 

 

[nobody]

Thanks for reading and following up. Your questions and things to look out for are very helpful.

 

1 hour ago, saveasteading said:

So the original has been rxtended, not enclosed?

I'd say yes but am not sure I understand what "enclosed" means here. 

 

1 hour ago, saveasteading said:

Is the stonework dressed or rubble? 

 

Mortared in place, pointed?

 

I believe it is dressed mudstone, and mortared. As for the quality of this [mmm], pic:

 

That's the chimney breast in the loft room. The wall opposite is solid brick while the walls below that brick are also stone, with some small patches of brick repairs. 

 

1 hour ago, saveasteading said:

Another important issue is door heights. If you raise the floor can you get through without ducking?

The plan will be to lower the higher floor of the stone building to match those either side increasing the door height, but we'll see how that goes. [nervous laugh]

 

I note the earlier point about depth which was already on my mind. Our builder has done extension and conversion work of old and new properties nearby (the latter a c. 2,000 semi next door) so knows the ground well. He had to dig much deeper than planned there, for a garage conversion and rear extension to a modern building. So it's something I'll be following closely but trust him to approach sensibly. 

 

From what I can see and know, our neighbour has separate chimney and is a later build (solid brick construction). I'm also sure it hasn't been modernised but will note your concerns and raise these possibilities (thanks, they are really helpful things to check).

 

Assuming SE = Structural Engineering, yes. Or builder plans a structural survey soon. 

 

So far we've been lucky with no sign of that running out... yet! Thanks again for your thoughts. I really appreciate them. 

Edited yesterday at 13:55 by nobody

[JohnMo]

If your digging the floors out, are you doing UFH? Would be a simple and pretty cheap way to add heating downstairs.  If so, the more insulation the better.

 

Not a fan of your hot water solution. Electric showers are just rubbish after having a unvented cylinder. Make room for a small/medium cylinder heating via immersion. Add a decent shower mixer. Your going to be running cold pipes anyway an additional pipe is easy while your at it any way.

[saveasteading]

very interesting chimney . the rustic construction would be great to retain for interest but will need a lot of attention. Doable though.

are these stone flag floors? on second looks... perhaps old timber planks and some infill modern stuff?

Yes SE as you say... pardon me in advance because this will happen al the time. SE EPS PIR  x 100.

 

Foundations. Can you ask why the modern building had deep founds? on perfect ground you would be 900mm deep. deeper means that the ground is soft or there are trees nearby.

BUT 200 years ago they would scrape out as little as possible, topsoil really, and build stone straight onto that.  That construction rises and falls annually, while the new bit stays put.

Hence I suggest checking how much asap (sorry abbreviations again).

 

My prejudice perhaps but importantly...  however good an SE , not all have expertise in old stone. Ask. They will very likely be straight forward and decline if they think someone else will know better..

Unlike Architects who mostly take on anything and the problems arise later. Ditto builder.  ("subject to Engineer's inspection" becomes your risk later. whereas the issues should be addressed early and influence the whole design.

 

 

 

[nobody]

On 25/07/2026 at 07:18, Russell griffiths said:

would be my last choice, unvented cylinder and nice thermostatic mixer shower will provide good shower pressure and loads of hot water. 

 

You might be right as I was hoping a non cylinder system would also handle a bath but that cunning plan was worthy of Baldrick. Short of upgrading, a single phase 12Kw heater won't cut it so might end up with a cylinder, maybe helped by a heat pump which if suitable would be nearby.

 

Still investigating so keeping options open. Thanks for your comment. 

 

Does anyone have experience of non electric hot water taps without a reservoir?

 

I read a 20yr old comment saying a 9.5Kw electric hot tap was only just good enough for their kitchen sink. I guess with a reservoir that's better, but would prefer to avoid a 24x7 10w overhead.

 

I'm learning so much, which is another way of admitting I know so little 

 

Thanks to everyone commenting.

[JohnMo]

4 hours ago, nobody said:

Does anyone have experience of non electric hot water taps without a reservoir?

What is that?

 

4 hours ago, nobody said:

cylinder, maybe helped by a heat pump which if suitable would be nearby.

All heat pums are suitable! Not all cylinders are suitable for heat pump heating.

 

We just heat our cylinder now via immersion, we are on Octopus cosy tariff and it allows heating 3x a day on cheap rate. So although there are advantages using the heat pump we have just stopped bothering and immersion adds very little in real terms to our bills.

[-rick-]

If you want to go direct electric with no tank and don't want variable water flows (ie, slow kitchen tap if shower in use) then you either need individual units for each tap or a very big three phase central unit. TBH. If you want decent flow rate in a shower you need large units anyway 15kw+. The electrical infrastructure will add up quickly.

 

Cylinder is the way to go IMO. Heat it via heatpump or direct electric (that's just a cost/environmental calculation). Direct electric can be relatively cost effective in use, but if you need to spend on bigger electrical supplies, large cables, etc, you could easily spend more. Plus the boiler upgrade scheme will include installation of the tank as part of a heatpump system. Installers tend to have healthy markups that somewhat defeat the point vs DIY without the scheme but I get the impression this wouldn't be an area you'd want to DIY anyway.

[nobody]

52 minutes ago, JohnMo said:

What is that?

A typo! Delete "non"! Sorry.

 

52 minutes ago, JohnMo said:

We just heat our cylinder now via immersion, we are on Octopus cosy tariff and it allows heating 3x a day on cheap rate. So although there are advantages using the heat pump we have just stopped bothering and immersion adds very little in real terms to our bills

Useful, thanks.

 

46 minutes ago, -rick- said:

then you either need individual units for each tap

That's what I was planning, but early days and trying to understand if this is viable. I've never had an electric tap with or without reservoir so am keen to know what they how good they are in different uses (bath room and kitchen). I'd prefer not to have a reservoir being kept hot all the time, but not sure how good they are without. Maybe an under-sink heater is the way?

 

46 minutes ago, -rick- said:

If you want decent flow rate in a shower you need large units anyway 15kw+

Is that for a unit supplying more than a shower? Most showers seem to go up to 10.8Kw but I don't know how good that is.

 

It does seem like I'm back to a cylinder at least for supplying two baths (not likely at the same time). We would like a bath+shower+sink upstairs, and bath+shower with one or two sinks downstairs.

 

A government grant isn't an option for us as there's nothing to upgrade. Seems daft, we may even end up with oil (no gas) because of that. None of this will be DIY though. I can do bits but don't want to take on a lot.

 

So if a heat pump can do the job in our building, an HVAC and cylinder will fit somewhere, and we can afford it... big ifs for now... the idea would be:

- heat pump with narrow ducted air vents (and possibly Solo AC where these can't reach)

- hot water cylinder (electric or heat exchanger)

- mixer or electric showers (eg mixer near the cylinder)

- either hot water plumbing or electric taps depending on location and electric tap effectiveness

- as much solar PV and batteries as we can fit

 

Our builder is recommending Diaphonite for IWI, we will double (or triple glaze), but being an old building I will get someone in to advise on whether this can work or we need to stick with oil.

 

Maybe its time to update the spreadsheet, or maybe not 

 

Thanks again everyone. All these contributions are super helpful.

Edited 7 hours ago by nobody

[saveasteading]

1 minute ago, nobody said:

So if a heat pump can do the job in our building

brings us back to my subject.... assuming UFH (another one!)  can you fit in your floor of stone, slab, insulation and screed?

[nobody]

On 25/07/2026 at 14:33, nobody said:

 

I believe it is dressed mudstone, and mortared.

@saveasteading looking at the "mortar" I don't know if using clay was a thing but that's what it looks like to me, or even mud. It's very soft and I can crumble it with my fingers.

[nobody]

Just now, saveasteading said:

brings us back to my subject.... assuming UFH (another one!)  can you fit in your floor of stone, slab, insulation and screed?

The plan is to dig out the floors and insulate. When I was thinking oil I was also thinking UFH. So this is still a possibility. All the floors are concrete but at three different levels in different parts. We may have nice slabs underneath in the stone walled central building - which we could sell or maybe use in the kitchen. I guess we'll be tempted to find out before long and also explore what is underneath the stone walls and how deep they go.

 

The previous owner's husband is a neighbour has loaned us a large electric chisel which my wife has been wielding to dislodge plaster (after complaining it was way too heavy she manages in short bursts and  I can tell when she's there using it with my remote monitoring in Home Assistant). Our neighbour also has something for breaking up concrete which might be fun.

 

[Nickfromwales]

2 minutes ago, nobody said:

The plan is to dig out the floors and insulate. When I was thinking oil I was also thinking UFH. So this is still a possibility. All the floors are concrete but at three different levels in different parts. We may have nice slabs underneath in the stone walled central building - which we could sell or maybe use in the kitchen. I guess we'll be tempted to find out before long and also explore what is underneath the stone walls and how deep they go.

 

The previous owner's husband is a neighbour has loaned us a large electric chisel which my wife has been wielding to dislodge plaster (after complaining it was way too heavy she manages in short bursts and  I can tell when she's there using it with my remote monitoring in Home Assistant). Our neighbour also has something for breaking up concrete which might be fun.

 

If you’re going oil + UFH, you’ll need a large thermal store / buffer tank to accept the huge swings of heat that the oil boiler will inevitably output; basically you’ll struggle to use the heat as fast as the boiler is producing it.

 

A thermal store with a hot water coil is an option, but you have to keep that very hot all summer so needs some serious thought / design input before pulling the trigger.

[-rick-]

20 minutes ago, nobody said:

That's what I was planning, but early days and trying to understand if this is viable. I've never had an electric tap with or without reservoir so am keen to know what they how good they are in different uses (bath room and kitchen). I'd prefer not to have a reservoir being kept hot all the time, but not sure how good they are without. Maybe an under-sink heater is the way?

 

They are pretty crap AFAIK. You get ones with a small tank (15L) which then use energy continuously to keep warm and will give you reasonable flow for the first 15L and then cold water if you keep wanting to use water. Or you get them that heat directly on demand. The little 3kw ones you see advertised won't do much if you expect much flow (some limit the flow to produce the set temperature, in which case you will likely get a dribble).

 

The 15L tank ones will heat the water to 80C to get the maximum storage from the small volume. They aren't well insulated so will lose a lot of energy to the surroundings. Compare this to a big well insulated cylinder designed to run off a heatpump (50C). The big cylinder stores less heat per unit volume but is better insulated, and the losses from the tank are much lower as the surface area/volume ratio is better AND the delta between the water and the surrounding air is lower.

 

A good 300L tank at 50C will lose less than 2kwh a day. If heating with direct electric thats what 50p? If with a heatpump that's more like 12-15p.

 

20 minutes ago, nobody said:

Is that for a unit supplying more than a shower? Most showers seem to go up to 10.8Kw but I don't know how good that is.

It's a fairly weak shower, especially if the incoming water is especially cold. If you haven't experienced it yet (or this is all you are used to) I encourage you to try the difference. Find some friends/airbnb's and try an electric shower vs a modern pressurised water tank fed system (not an older gravity fed system). Night and day.

 

20 minutes ago, nobody said:

A government grant isn't an option for us as there's nothing to upgrade. Seems daft, we may even end up with oil (no gas) because of that. None of this will be DIY though. I can do bits but don't want to take on a lot.

The government grant can be used for new houses so I would strongly check the rules before ruling it out. If not strictly covered right now, I suspect you could get creative with heat sources used during construction that you then need to 'upgrade' at the end.

 

20 minutes ago, nobody said:

So if a heat pump can do the job in our building, an HVAC and cylinder will fit somewhere, and we can afford it... big ifs for now... the idea would be:

- heat pump with narrow ducted air vents (and possibly Solo AC where these can't reach)

- hot water cylinder (electric or heat exchanger)

- mixer or electric showers (eg mixer near the cylinder)

- either hot water plumbing or electric taps depending on location and electric tap effectiveness

- as much solar PV and batteries as we can fit

 

Our builder is recommending Diaphonite for IWE, we will double (or triple glaze), but being an old building I will get someone in to advise on whether this can work or we need to stick with oil.

 

Insulation will be by far the best investment you make in the property both for comfort and running costs. Insulating an old building is hard and compromises will be needed, but in general if the compromise is a smaller room vs a colder room I'd go for the smaller room.

 

20 minutes ago, nobody said:

Maybe its time to update the spreadsheet, or maybe not 

Always

 

Edited 7 hours ago by -rick-

[JohnMo]

19 minutes ago, nobody said:

government grant isn't an option for us as there's nothing to upgrade.

That makes zero difference, you do not need to trade anything in. You are applicable to the scheme. But that said, so was I, but did it all my self without a grant, not really that expensive. UFH is the way to go with a well insulated floor. Then run it low and slow whatever the heat source.  After having gas now heat pump, the cost saving with heat pump are ace. Battery makes all the difference (with or with out solar) only pay 10p per kWh and get 3 charge periods a day if I need it.

[-rick-]

13 minutes ago, -rick- said:

It's a fairly weak shower, especially if the incoming water is especially cold. If you haven't experienced it yet (or this is all you are used to) I encourage you to try the difference. Find some friends/airbnb's and try an electric shower vs a modern pressurised water tank fed system (not an older gravity fed system). Night and day.

 

Just to add, I checked how much water you'll get out of an electric shower. If the incoming water temp is 8C and you want your shower to be 38C then a 12kw shower will output about 6 litres per minute. That's a pretty low flow. In my book a 'decent' shower is about 10lpm. If you like the luxury rainfall type showers they are more like 20lpm.

 

38C is about the average shower temp for people. Some like it hotter, in which case an electric shower will flow even less water.

 

Now the incoming water temp varies by time of year and how the water gets to you. But in winter when you usually want the hottest showers its around 8C.

[saveasteading]

I didn't make my shower comment clear at all. It is an electrically powered shower using hot water from a boiler, mixing with cold. 2 pipes lead to the position as normal, but terminate at t he powered unit from where 1 pipe leads to the shower. There is no argument for economy, it is convenience and control.

 

I had forgotten how bad some showers can be until in an old hotel recently.

[Nickfromwales]

6 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

I didn't make my shower comment clear at all. It is an electrically powered shower using hot water from a boiler, mixing with cold. 2 pipes lead to the position as normal, but terminate at t he powered unit from where 1 pipe leads to the shower. There is no argument for economy, it is convenience and control.

 

I had forgotten how bad some showers can be until in an old hotel recently.

You have a ‘digital mixer shower’, some are pumped to draw stored hot/cold water from gravity or ‘open pipe’ systems, others can accept high (balanced) pressure hot & cold inputs; both mix the temp digitally so are quite elegant solutions if getting into a pre-warmed shower is on the wish list.

 

Caveat is, these wear out and need replacing more often than a basic thermostatic shower mixer that you control manually.