Unit resting on water pipes

[DundeeDancer]

Being a newbie to this building game I am unsure if a basin unit resting directly on water pipes would be considered a defect/worry to experienced builders/plumbers.

 

The basin unit has been installed as follows which looks basically OK before considering the instructions I gave to the builder before installation.

 

 

Instructions emailed a week or so before installation were:-

"Basin unit

I was looking at how the basin unit would fit in to the space in the bathroom and I think it best there is a 60mm gap from the box of pipes on the left, that’s 50mm if measuring the gap from a tile.

I think the basin unit needs this space to give comfortable gap for the basin bowl to settle flat on the counter top.

Also the cold and hot water feeds from the kitchen into the bathroom for the basin tap need to be 50mm lower as currently they are at the same level as the back support plate of the unit. Please see photo below:-"

 

So the first attempt of installation of the unit left a 5 mm gap to the left hand side of the unit and the unit cross bar supports resting on the pipes.

 

So I emailed once more to my build contractor:- "Owners note that structural baton on basin unit is resting on water feed pipes which is stopping the unit from rest on boxing in below as previously agreed. Water pipes should be moved lower so unit can be moved 8mm lower to rest on boxing in.  Also shadow gap to left of basin needs to be increased to at least 60mm to allow for access for cleaning gap."

 

Then the basin unit was then unbolted from the wall and moved to it's current locatio where there is now a 100mm gap from the left hand side of the wall but STILL resting on the pipes as shown:-

 

My main concern has always been the fear of a plumbing fault causing a flood; with the weight of the unit considering it's a quartz top and porcelain bowl on top (20kg) + water in bowl and people leaning on it (maybe another 30kg) that the unit should be firmly bolted to the wall and not resting on the pipes, as over time I fear the weight of the unit on the pipes may causes one of the pipe joint to fail?

 

I fear that I might worry about this set up until it is rectified.

 

Do other builders/plumbers here consider the cross support bar resting on the pipes a defect that should be fixed or would they not worry about it?

 

The unit also now seems glued to the wall with some clear adhesive instead of bolting it to the wall, which I guess might be OK in the short term but not convinced adhesive is a longer term/10 years+ good plan. 

 

Your thoughts will be appreciated, DD  

  

Edited January 27, 2018 by DundeeDancer

[RichS]

Why not just notch the back rail??

 

[DundeeDancer]

27 minutes ago, RichS said:

Why not just notch the back rail??

 

That was suggested by my brother in-law but it has the drawback of weakening the unit and the cross bar is basically chipboard with some form of shrink-wrapped pvs/vinyl cover, cut into it and the bathroom vapor will slowly make the exposed chipboard swell fairly soon.  It would solve the issue of the weight of the unit not pressing on the pipes though.

 

So it's a cheap hack but considering the unit was shown to the plumber on-site before the brand new water pipes were put into position on the wall then really it is a first fix problem that the plumber should have avoided and should fix at his own cost in my frustrated opinion. The plumber was a grumpy sub-contractor so that adds in a layer of complexity to the mix.

Edited January 27, 2018 by DundeeDancer

[RichS]

I appreciate where you're coming from on the telling him beforehand basis. But looking at it where you are now, if he isn't prepared to do what you request, then the solution is notch the back rail, as minimal as possible, and seal the raw edges using PVA or silicone.

 

[ProDave]

My 2 pence worth.

 

This thread highlights, if you want it done properly, do it yourself. At least you would have got the gap you wanted.

 

Having said that, the unit is fixed to the wall with 2 (or more) brackets, so I very much doubt it's doing much more than touching those pipes, and not putting the full weight of the unit on the pipes.

[ToughButterCup]

Think of this issue as a small hint about your builder....

[Nickfromwales]

18 hours ago, ProDave said:

My 2 pence worth.

 

This thread highlights, if you want it done properly, do it yourself. At least you would have got the gap you wanted.

 

Having said that, the unit is fixed to the wall with 2 (or more) brackets, so I very much doubt it's doing much more than touching those pipes, and not putting the full weight of the unit on the pipes.

Agreed. There are two height adjustable brackets up top, and another two basic brackets down lower, plus it looks like silicone / other has been used too. That means, if all are screwed, the unit is going nowhere. Is it touching the pipes or resting on them ? If it's the former than I'd not worry. Grab the pipes and see if they move left to right. If they do I'd not move it back as you'll have holes in the tiles which will then be on show on the right hand side ( can't help wondering if you don't already have some showing on the left side ). 

I'd use this opportunity to sit down with your builder in a minutes drawn meeting and express how pissed off you are with how your clear request has not been executed anywhere near what you asked for. If you don't rock the boat a little here the drop in attention will continue to spiral out of control. 

[Bob]

I agree with nick from wales if the pipes move freely and are just touching the unit and the unit is attached to the wall properly then any further weight added is unlikely to cause the pipes to leak particularly as the fittings are compression.

[DundeeDancer]

3 hours ago, Nickfromwales said:

Agreed. There are two height adjustable brackets up top, and another two basic brackets down lower, plus it looks like silicone / other has been used too. That means, if all are screwed, the unit is going nowhere. Is it touching the pipes or resting on them ? If it's the former than I'd not worry. Grab the pipes and see if they move left to right. If they do I'd not move it back as you'll have holes in the tiles which will then be on show on the right hand side ( can't help wondering if you don't already have some showing on the left side ). 

I'd use this opportunity to sit down with your builder in a minutes drawn meeting and express how pissed off you are with how your clear request has not been executed anywhere near what you asked for. If you don't rock the boat a little here the drop in attention will continue to spiral out of control. 

Thanks for the reply Nick

 

The 2 top and 2 bottom height adjustable brackets are no longer being used and the 20mm square height adjusting fixing plates for these 4 brackets are no longer on site  so I've asked Ikea to ship out new ones (They appear to be doing it for free from Sweeden, way to go Ikea!).  Seems to be the case if the person on-site at the time can't fit the part then they dispose of the evidence   The fitting manual for the basin unit also now lost 

 

So the unit is not bolted to the wall in any way.  I'll do a finger nail check on the clear adhesive to see if it's glue or silicon to gauge how strong the bond is.

 

I'll then try the waggle test on the pipes but I suspect they will be slightly under load and will not budge.

 

This renovation project was pretty much at practical completion just before Christmas, a few minor defects that have kind of been fixed/hacked in the last few weeks in preparation for the Building Surveyor to come out and do an inspection and hopefully issue the completion certificate.  So I'm going to try and hang in there and just grumble a little and try not to blow any fuses at this corner cutting contractor.

 

Consultant architect to give his opinion later in the week but the relationship between the architect and the build contractor is a close one; I shouldn't have taken the architect's advice to use this build contractor, a sore lesson learnt!  So glad we did this small renovation project before we start on our main dwelling renovation, so many lessons learnt! 

 

You're correct about the holes on the left hand side, shown below 

 

 

 

 

[Nickfromwales]

Turn a screw into the plugs and you'll be able to pull them out of the tiles. A bit of colour match silicone / caulk and you'll be ok, but if it were me I'd be asking for the tiles to be replaced..........

 

[Gone West]

14 hours ago, DundeeDancer said:

So the unit is not bolted to the wall in any way.  I'll do a finger nail check on the clear adhesive to see if it's glue or silicon to gauge how strong the bond is.

 

The second picture in your first post shows the cam locks on the rear cross bar holding the cross bar tight to the side panels. In the third picture it doesn't look as though the cam locks are doing their job, it could just be the angle of the picture or smears of silicone, but it looks odd to me. Also if it's not sitting on the pipe boxing, as it should, how is it level front to back?

[Nickfromwales]

As an aside....the flexible tap hoses shouldn't go directly onto the ballofix valves either. They should screw onto These flat faced copper to irons first, and then have a short section of copper going between the ballofix and the aforementioned fitting. The ballofix has a sharp edge to the conical part that the olive seats against, and that can chew into the rubber seal in the tap flexi and cause the fitting to leak over time. I know that from my early days after working for a penis that did this to save £3 on every job. 

[DundeeDancer]

23 hours ago, Nickfromwales said:

Is it touching the pipes or resting on them ? If it's the former than I'd not worry. Grab the pipes and see if they move left to right.

 

The water pipes are able to be wiggled by 3 to 4mm in either a horizontal or vertical direction. 

 

As I now know the pipes are not under any stress, I now feel a lot less stressed myself and I may come round to the idea of living with the set up the way it is.

 

Thanks for the idea of a wiggle test, sometimes just looking at a problem is not enough, sometimes you've got to get your hands on it and give it a push and a prod 

Edited January 29, 2018 by DundeeDancer

[Carrerahill]

On 27/01/2018 at 17:49, DundeeDancer said:

That was suggested by my brother in-law but it has the drawback of weakening the unit and the cross bar is basically chipboard with some form of shrink-wrapped pvs/vinyl cover, cut into it and the bathroom vapor will slowly make the exposed chipboard swell fairly soon.  It would solve the issue of the weight of the unit not pressing on the pipes though.

 

So it's a cheap hack but considering the unit was shown to the plumber on-site before the brand new water pipes were put into position on the wall then really it is a first fix problem that the plumber should have avoided and should fix at his own cost in my frustrated opinion. The plumber was a grumpy sub-contractor so that adds in a layer of complexity to the mix.

 I would just notch that back bar, in reality is is serving very little purpose other than to tie the sides together at the back and stop them flapping in the wind. Now the cabinet is installed they are almost redundant.

 

If you were worried you could remove the section to allow the pipes to clear comfortably, then screw a batten of real wood to the back plate to reinforce it.

 

I doubt the chipboard being damaged by moisture is much of an issue (from seeing it survive well in a bathroom on the back of a damaged cabinet), if concerned check it then apply some paint/varnish/silicone to the exposed chipboard.