Contract Administrator - cost queries

[Jothetaxi]

We have concerns that our contract administrator (The Architect) has been certifying payments that are not reasonable. The builder held back giving prices for variations and is now seeking to charge a disproportionate amount retrospectively.  While the builder pulled off our project for several months, we discovered the builder and the architect had been working together on another project. This was not declared to us until several months later. During this time our own project fell behind.

 

We've now had some unreasonable amounts requested for work that was undertaken and the administrator feels the payments are warranted.  In both instances, the architect/ administrator was not there to witness the work, nor did they receive any prompt costing at the time.  These relate to work that was undertaken and charged retrospectively.  

 

We don't feel the contract administrator is acting in our best interest and siding with the builder. We also feel there is a conflict of interest here.

 

Is there a process whereby we can have work valued? would this be the work of a quantity surveyor?

 

Thank you.

Edited 21 hours ago by Jothetaxi

[JohnMo]

When we did similar - some years ago, we had weekly site meeting where progress and financial affairs were openly discussed. Either myself or my wife were always in attendance, these meetings were all minutes by architect,with us approving minutes. No work was progressed until fully priced.

 

Variations always come and bite you. Push back if not in agreement, get them line by line itemised, don't pay until happy.

[saveasteading]

1 hour ago, Jothetaxi said:

conflict of interest

It does sound that way, esp as you weren't informed they were working together elsewhere.

Have you proof of this or could you gather it quickly before protesting formally.

 

For now just say you aren't happy and are reviewing before making any more payment.

Is there a recognised formal contract in place? Who chose it?

 

[Great_scot_selfbuild]

1 hour ago, Jothetaxi said:

We also feel there is a conflict of interest here.

Sounds like it. 

 

16 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

For now just say you aren't happy and are reviewing before making any more payment.

I'd agree with this as a holding statement. Don't be pressured into making a decision, especially as you say they stopped work on your build some months ago - they clearly weren't in a rush.

 

Just be calm and measured in your communication (may require a lot of self-control mind) and as long as you are in control of the discussion in a clear and reasonable way then you have a better chance of achieving an acceptable solution. Prepare yourself to have to compromise and not be totally happy (I say this from experience). If you have conversations then make sure you follow-up by email to confirm what was discussed (even if it wasn't for any formal agreement), as it will give you a written record if it's ever needed.

 

 

[Jothetaxi]

Thanks for the replies.

The contract is a residential RIBA contract and the completion certificate has been issued. The builder ran behind and probably out of money so sought to cut corners wherever he could.  There are some technical defects that need to be rectified as well, where things have not been constructed to the drawings.  The builders have tried their luck wherever they can and while we did not expect them to be angels, we are shocked at the dishonesty.

 

Throughout the build we had regular valuation meetings and paid variations that were agreed, however,  as the work came to an end they held back being forthcoming on prices and we have seen them throwing out obscene amounts as we come to the end of the build without any proof.  In one instance a variation for a ridiculous amount for bodging the hanging of our internal doors (also confirmed by an RICS surveyor who undertook a snagging survey).  

 

The Administrator has not questioned any of this and seems to think these are reasonable costs, which we dispute. It is not that we don't want to pay, it is that we don't want to be ripped off.  

 

Is there an external way of getting an independent price for these?  certainly presenting costs after undertaking the work is not lawful anyway.

 

 

Edited 19 hours ago by Jothetaxi

[bmj1]

Do you have any retention still held back ?

 

Whereabouts in the country are you based ?

Edited 19 hours ago by bmj1

[Big Jimbo]

I would tell both the builder, and the arch to F.off. But i'm a bit like that. Hope you get it sorted.

[Jothetaxi]

16 minutes ago, bmj1 said:

Do you have any retention still held back ?

 

Whereabouts in the country are you based ?

Yes, we have retention held back and have submitted a costing for liquidated damages, where they ran over the contract deadline without a request for extension.  They were granted an extension from the original timeline with the architect blaming us for the delays, which is almost laughable to be honest - especially as they had disappeared from the site for 4 months.  They didn't meet the second deadline either, because as we predicted, they disappeared from site again and reappeared in the week the contract was due to expire, running around like headless chickens trying to get things completed. 

 

The retention amount will not cover rectifying some of the work if they do not come back, so the liquidated amount is to cover ourselves.

We are in the East of England.

Edited 18 hours ago by Jothetaxi

[Big Jimbo]

I have worked directly for clients over the years who have used an architect, and the architect has appointed the main contractor.  The architect only puts the job out to his pals, who look after him at crimbo, for tender. It has never ended well.

Years ago, i had a friend who was One of the Architects mates. He used to get told, you are not getting this job, so i need your quote to be this. he would sometimes be no1, other times not. The architect defo used to get well looked after by his favoured contractors. (The only Ones he ever went out to tender)

Just saying.........

[ETC]

Can we see some of the problems…..?

 

Also….complain to ARB and RIBA…..

[Gus Potter]

5 hours ago, Jothetaxi said:

we discovered the builder and the architect had been working together on another project.

This is not uncommon. Many designers have a list of builders that they trust to play fair. I have such a list. When I pitch for a design job I tell Clients I have a list of builders that may be suitable. I insist that they also get prices independantly and this avoids a later accusation of a conflict of interest. It also keeps my list of builders on their toes as they know I do this. I clearly state that I have no financial or otherwise interest in the builders on my list. This should be basic common business sense to any professional! 

 

Maybe the Archictect and builder developed a relationship after your job had started? 

 

1 hour ago, Big Jimbo said:

The architect only puts the job out to his pals, who look after him at crimbo, for tender. It has never ended well.

This does happen, it's corruption plain and simple. But I can tell you that in my 40 years of doing this job I've only met one that was totally corrupt.. and he went to jail. 99 % of professionals are not like this. But many make mistakes, drop the ball, we are all human after all. Then their biggest mistake is not to own up early on, admit your error, deal with it.. if not very quickly things can get out of hand. Some designers may think.. well it's only a domestic job.. big mistake! You only have to look at the range of skills BH members have, yes they may be learning about building but many will pull your trousers down if you try and have a laugh with them. 

 

5 hours ago, Jothetaxi said:

We don't feel the contract administrator is acting in our best interest and siding with the builder.

Here it gets complex as we need to look at the role that the Contract administrator plays. On a large contract they have a QS in support, who does the valuation of the staged payments. But on a small domestic project this is not often the case. Rather than referring to your Architect, I'll just say your designer. They will have a wide range of experience and depth of experience. 

 

To make progress we need to go back in time. Traditionally we would have a Clerk of works. Most often these were highly experienced trades folk.. seen it all. They were on site nearly every day and nothing got passed or covered up until they gave the ok. 

 

The contract administrator can in this day and age be expected to excercise "reasonable skill and care" and this is based on what they can see if they visit the site. If the builder has covered stuff up then this can be a clear issue for example. This maybe explains your expectation with your designers take on it. 

 

To add a bit of further context. I hold insurance to act as a Contract Administrator.. but my policy specifically excludes any Clerk of works function, as I would have to be basically standing over folk on site.. and there is a fee attached to that. 

 

5 hours ago, Jothetaxi said:

We've now had some unreasonable amounts requested for work that was undertaken and the administrator feels the payments are warranted. 

If you refuse payment at the moment you must make sure you are not in breach of contract. It sounds perverse.. you have been wronged! But just check.. I hope I'm wrong!

 

3 hours ago, Jothetaxi said:

In one instance a variation for a ridiculous amount for bodging

There is another way of maybe skinning this cat. Valuing work cost is a bit abstract. Even more abstract can be at times who decides and what is a bodge / unsatisfactory workmanship? 

 

The objective is to run up the clock to your contractor while introducing risk they have not forseen. You make their life hard!

 

Here are some things I do:

 

1/ Contractor.. have you swapped any materials / changed the method of construction from what was shown on the drawings? Just write this and get a response..

 

then ask later if they admit to this...

 

If so, can you show us where we approved that as we would have reasonable expected you to make us aware of the knock on effects.  As soon as the builder does this then they are taking on a designer role and are now responsible for the design!  Don't forget that you are a domestic Client and have an element of protection under the consumer act and CDM regs. 

 

Now even if they have changed insulation or air tight details that can put the structure at risk. You force them to prove that what they have changed or ommitted is still ok. By doing so you can shift the battle to your own ground. 

 

2/ We are noticing movement / distortion in the finishes. Can you explain why we are observing this. It's on the face of it an open question.. but if they don't answer!

 

The objective here is to turn a money problem into a building safety risk..condensation can impact on the structure for example and when you do that you often have them on the back foot. 

1 hour ago, ETC said:

Can we see some of the problems…..?

That's my take so far.. If you post some photos then I bet @ETC will bring his decades of experience to the problem! Then others will chip in!

 

The question is.. Are you happy to walk away just now and call it a day or do you want to chase some form of refund? 

 

 

Edited 16 hours ago by Gus Potter

[saveasteading]

The contract will include processes for valuations and disputes. You must follow this.

The next stage will be you asking them to justify their requests for extras. You also state that there are quality issues, if there are.

Then it gets expensive for both parties.

There are specialist claims surveyors who work for you in presenting a reasoned and costed claim. The other side may do the same.

Then layers and adjudicators get involved. If you're talking 20k dispute then it may be worth it.

If the architect feels at risk they may take one side of thd other....again wrongly.

Diy isn't  likely to work.

Anyway have a read up of the contract. And tot up the approx level of monies involved.

[saveasteading]

2 hours ago, Big Jimbo said:

need your quote to be this. 

All too common among weak and corrupt circles. Even getting genuine quotes in by a deadline ( at great cost to the contractors) opening them then telling their mate the price.

I had a boss once who i'm sure only got work this way as schmoozing was his only skill. I didn't stay long.

[Great_scot_selfbuild]

2 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

The contract will include processes for valuations and disputes. You must follow this.

Just to add to this, re-read the contract from both your position and then from the perspective of your architect and builder - have they followed the process as to their responsibilities. Knowing it inside out from all stakeholder perspectives is key to setting the conditions for you to be in a strong position to negotiate.

 

(Don't assume they know the detail themselves, even if they behave as though they do)

[Gus Potter]

2 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

The contract will include processes for valuations and disputes. You must follow this.

Agree. This is what builders and warranty providers use as a tactic to deny, delay and then defend. They know that often a domestic householder has limited funds. My approach runs in parallel. You do have to stick to the contract.. but you can at the same time introduce my approach. It works more often than not.

 

As soon as you work it round to a safety arguement they often cave in.. the onus is then on them to prove otherwise as they have deviated from the design. For a builder or an Architect to answer some of my basic questions can be very diffcult,  expensive and time consuming. 

10 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

Then it gets expensive for both parties.

My approach is to avoid this, you shift the battle ground. 

 

 

 

 

[saveasteading]

I've been there more often than I'd have liked. Mostly with clients who didn't want to pay, basically..  ( 'never pay unless you need them again' policy) sometimes a rubbish subcontractors won't sort stuff. 

So I know you can be 100% right, win your case, yet still bd out of pocket and seething.

We don't know your specifics or the right and wrongs... so all we can say is follow the processes firmly yet politely, check how much proof you have, and talk it through on here and/or with trusties.