What does this architectural symbol mean?

[Tony L]

I'm checking through the drawings my architectural technician has done for me.  Can somebody let me know what this architectural symbol means please?  It's used in the detail drawing, below.

[Pocster]

Looks like Sputnik 1 has landed . But it’s unlikely to be an architectural requirement for plans .

[DamonHD]

It may be @Pocster's WC seen from above with him on it...

[Nestor]

Sack trolley, clock hands or the image is a standardized symbol (IEC 60417 - 6284) used in technical documentation. 

No idea.

 

[SteamyTea]

Is it the new name for Prince Andrew.

[Adrian Walker]

It’s similar to a machine surface symbol. 

[Nickfromwales]

If it’s anything like a lighting design I’ve just seen, it’s a floor level up light. 

 

Wouldn’t it be easier to just ask the author? 👀🤔

[SteamyTea]

33 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

Wouldn’t it be easier to just ask the author

What.  Take all the fun away.

[Nickfromwales]

1 hour ago, SteamyTea said:

What.  Take all the fun away.

Yes, lol 😂. 

[Tony L]

14 hours ago, SteamyTea said:

Is it the new name for Prince Andrew.

 

Another TAFKAP.  Could be.  The Andrew Formerly Known As Prince.

 

My new name for him is Andy Battenberg.  Being a clever chap, you will already know, @SteamyTea: his ancestors anglicised the Battenberg name because they no longer wanted to be associated with Mr Kipling's best selling cake.

[Tony L]

I'll ask the arch tec, although I think @Nickfromwales is probably right - thanks Nick.  Strange though, that there's no other lighting shown anywhere else.

 

I asked here first, because I my list of requests for change & questions is already so long, I wanted to slim it down a little, & also do my best to understand what's going in these drawings before I go back to the arch tec to ask for changes.

[Nickfromwales]

1 minute ago, Tony L said:

I'll ask the arch tec, although I think @Nickfromwales is probably right - thanks Nick.  Strange though, that there's no other lighting shown anywhere else.

 

I asked here first, because I my list of requests for change & questions is already so long, I wanted to slim it down a little, & also do my best to understand what's going in these drawings before I go back to the arch tec to ask for changes.

Many heads always better than one, imho.

[Nickfromwales]

8 minutes ago, Tony L said:

 

Another TAFKAP.  Could be.  The Andrew Formerly Known As Prince.

 

My new name for him is Andy Battenberg.  Being a clever chap, you will already know, @SteamyTea: his ancestors anglicised the Battenberg name because they no longer wanted to be associated with Mr Kipling's best selling cake.

He takes the biscuit. Does that count?

[SteamyTea]

14 minutes ago, Tony L said:

Mr Kipling's best selling cake

I heard that his misses liked being the filling in his sandwich.

Edited Monday at 17:53 by SteamyTea

[Pocster]

4 hours ago, Nickfromwales said:

Many heads always better than one, imho.

🙄😉

[DevilDamo]

Just ask the designer. At the same time, get them to amend the “fascia” vents label to “soffit” vents.

[Tony L]

Thanks for that, @DevilDamo.  He's made many sloppy errors all over these drawings.  I'll also ask for the 72.5mm insulated plaster board, which is the only insulation running along the length of the top edge of the (over 4m long) steel beam, to be doubled up (if not tripled or replaced with something better), as think this would be sucking heat out of the house all winter long, if it were left as it is.  72.5mm Kooltherm K118 is only 60mm of phenolic + 12.5mm plaster.  I don't think 60mm insulation is enough here, is it?

 

& my brief said, "hidden gutter".  What he's drawn is something that pokes out half a mile from the roof edge & is very obviously a wide gutter.

Edited 17 hours ago by Tony L

[Nickfromwales]

It has to be wide, as it's so shallow though? If it was narrower and deeper then the rafter would snap in half and that's not any of an improvement is it lol?  

 

Doesn't look as if it could be any higher up with a 200mm rafter either, so a solution that loses you the least internal skeiling height most prob, preserving GIA.

 

1 hour ago, Tony L said:

is it?

Airtightness trumps insulation here afaic, so for the last one we only put 20mm of XPS (Jackoboard) over a steel column to stave off cold bridging, then bonded the plasterboard to that. Was a huge uplift to the wood the (sacked) builder just fixed to the steel. Not much needed to address the steel tbh.

 

You can't double or triple the insulated plasterboard, just fit as much depth as is practicable in rigid insulation board (less PB), then a service batten and plasterboard to that, which should do the job  

[MikeSharp01]

On 08/12/2025 at 17:46, Nickfromwales said:

Many heads always better than one, imho.

The wisdom of crowds - used in ensemble method AI models (random forests) so yet another example of an old idea (Aristotle understood it) getting a new lease of life as part of AI, along with Bayes Theorem (1761) and the Neural Network itself really stemming from the 1950s development of the perceptron. 

[Nickfromwales]

16 minutes ago, MikeSharp01 said:

The wisdom of crowds - used in ensemble method AI models (random forests) so yet another example of an old idea (Aristotle understood it) getting a new lease of life as part of AI, along with Bayes Theorem (1761) and the Neural Network itself really stemming from the 1950s development of the perceptron. 

Literally..................

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

....took the words right out of my mouth, Mike.

[Tony L]

1 hour ago, Nickfromwales said:

Airtightness trumps insulation here afaic, so for the last one we only put 20mm of XPS (Jackoboard) over a steel column to stave off cold bridging, then bonded the plasterboard to that. Was a huge uplift to the wood the (sacked) builder just fixed to the steel. Not much needed to address the steel tbh.

 

You can't double or triple the insulated plasterboard, just fit as much depth as is practicable in rigid insulation board (less PB), then a service batten and plasterboard to that, which should do the job  

 

Yes, I'm far more concerned about airtightness than insulation (I learnt that here on BH), but should I really not worry about the cold bridge highlighted by the red line in the drawing below - so there's a direct route from the cold outside air, through some steel & plaster, to the inside of the house?

 

+ thanks for the "not doubling up on the K118" tip.  I could put 60mm or so of PIR, or some other type of insulation, behind the insulated board - it would be easy to do & this in one of the few areas of the house where I don't care about losing a small amount of interior space.  Would that be OK or is that a bad idea because the K118 insulated board is airtight?

 

[Tony L]

2 hours ago, Nickfromwales said:

It has to be wide, as it's so shallow though? If it was narrower and deeper then the rafter would snap in half and that's not any of an improvement is it lol?  

 

Doesn't look as if it could be any higher up with a 200mm rafter either, so a solution that loses you the least internal ceiling height most prob, preserving GIA.

 

 

I think I've seen rafter ends (feet) being extended on a YT video, which I'm unable to find.  Like the light coloured rafter extensions in this drawing, below, only they'd be twice as deep.  Then I could end up with something like the 2nd drawing below, where the orange outline shows the added rafter end & the pale blue shows my hidden gutter.  The roof is overhanging my porch in this detail drawing, by the way - just in case you were wondering where the wall is that supports everything.

 

 

[Nickfromwales]

47 minutes ago, Tony L said:

but should I really not worry about the cold bridge highlighted by the red line in the drawing below

Erm, no?

 

The red line is exaggerating the issue, and the only thing I would improve upon here is that the two insulation layers should meet, and not be separated by the flooring / deck boards as shown.

 

The cold element of the steel is the edge of the upper 'toe' so is marginal at most (imho).

 

52 minutes ago, Tony L said:

so there's a direct route from the cold outside air, through some steel & plaster, to the inside of the house?

Not if the airtightness is detailed correctly  

 

52 minutes ago, Tony L said:

Would that be OK or is that a bad idea because the K118 insulated board is airtight?

Attempting to use the PB layer as your AT layer is not a robust plan afaic, so maybe I have misunderstood you in that respect? The detail shown doesn't show an AVCL, so one can only assume you have not yet crossed that bridge with your AT and that's why it isn't detailed, yet? 

[Nickfromwales]

48 minutes ago, Tony L said:

Then I could end up with something like the 2nd drawing below, where the orange outline shows the added rafter end & the pale blue shows my hidden gutter.

That projects out almost as much as the previous detail though? Very little in it, from what my Pentium 1 brain is looking at. Ultimately you will get a solution to the remit you have provided, so if you have specifically asked for the least projection solution possible then the AT needs to sharpen his pencil; however if you just said "give me a secret gutter" and no further information re particulars of how you want this to be presented have been forthcoming, then you must be willing to accept a draft revision (for discussion) at the outset so you can see what you 'don't like' and then request changes to arrive at something more inline with your expectations. This is self-build and feck all goes right first time  plus...we're only human too.

 

The issue I constantly struggle with is getting exacting information from my clients, but it's not because they don't know what they want, it's more about things getting lost in translation; folk simply don't know what the options and possibilities are, so they need to see something in front of them so they can say "close, but no cigar yet....let's discuss!".

 

That's why I choose to work with a select few (patient and pragmatic) people, as they get the haywire between my ears. We arrive at solutions very quickly, with zero friction or fuss, and all whilst sharing the same common goal; get the client the best things we can for the least amount of time / money spent.

 

Every damn day is a school day. I don't care who you are, how old, how experienced, if you can't be open to a bit of collaborative thinking and discussion (2 heads blah, blah, blah), and be patient whilst the answers begin to form into a thing or shape you like, then  how would anyone ever get to the finish line with hair and sanity still intact?

 

It's not a war, or a battle, it's a team effort; all you need are good team members to work with. So if the right solution doesn't jump off the 1st page of a thick book, best to not shit the bed methinks.

 

Share your findings, google search images, likes and dislikes, and discuss! Then the juices will start flowing  Then it'll be the best house it can ever be.

 

Tres bien.

[torre]

Looks like you could vent below your drip into the gutter as the equivalent to over fascia vent if you had a simple gutter fixed outside