Architects have messed up. Next steps?

[flanagaj]

It's not a ditch or a water course.  My question is more around how an architect double checks the boundary line before they do any plans.  No conversations were had and I can only assume that they took it on face value that the previously granted planning application was accurately done according to the actual boundary line.  Which I think is maybe quite an assumption.

I have contacted the architect, but I think the next thing to do is to get a surveyor to site to mark out the boundary according to land registry.   This was impossible before we purchased the plot as a result of the cattery building that were there and tight up against the hedge line.

 

I do think the boundary line is actually not where the original architects thought it was.  This is a big mistake on our part as we should have had a professional land survey done to verify it.

Edited Monday at 06:18 by flanagaj

[Alan Ambrose]

>>> get a surveyor to site to mark out the boundary according to land registry

 

If you look at the land registry web site they say that the vast majority of the boundaries they have recorded are not definitive. Yes, they do provide a bit of a clue, but they can’t be relied on as an authoritative source. 

 

The whole area is a bit of a fudge at best. Possible to agree the boundary with your neighbour? That would be a good start. There is then a process for recording a definitive boundary with the land registry if you choose.

 

I suspect the red lines on deeds are usually drawn in a few seconds by a junior lawyer without ever visiting the plot / looking at Google Earth / booking in a surveyor ~ and Google isn’t accurate anyway and subject to.optical distortion.

Edited Monday at 06:59 by Alan Ambrose

[flanagaj]

39 minutes ago, Alan Ambrose said:

>>> get a surveyor to site to mark out the boundary according to land registry

 

If you look at the land registry web site they say that the vast majority of the boundaries they have recorded are not definitive. Yes, they do provide a bit of a clue, but they can’t be relied on as an authoritative source. 

 

The whole area is a bit of a fudge at best. Possible to agree the boundary with your neighbour? That would be a good start. There is then a process for recording a definitive boundary with the land registry if you choose.

 

I suspect the red lines on deeds are usually drawn in a few seconds by a junior lawyer without ever visiting the plot / looking at Google Earth / booking in a surveyor ~ and Google isn’t accurate anyway and subject to.optical distortion.

That's interesting.  I wasn't aware that they state that they are not definitive.  

[marmic]

good news it's not a ditch - is there not one on the other side?  if there is potentially more good news! - curious as to where the raised bank to hedge is from - or does the ground level just step up where it's previously been levelled out perhaps? if the latter is the case you may need to think carefully about drainage here?  regarding boundary and architect's responsibility they will probably throw this back over the net if they were working to details provided by you, or was establishing the boundary part of the brief? Agree talk to neighbour about boundary - but only once you are armed with the closest to facts/history/presumptions you can find.

may also be worth looking for boundary markers - guessing extremely unlikely looking at photo but you never know.  The land we bought was originally under one title with the vendors splitting it up.  Wooden pegs were in the ground marking the split.  We have replicated by digging a hole with post hole digger, ramming in deep a steel road pin and filled hole around pin with postmix.  Now invisible but know where they are if we ever need.  The stock fence we have erected is a fraction inside the legal boundary due to an error by fencing contractor.  But in hindsight not a bad thing as to our advanatge should there ever be a future dispute with any new owners of adjacent land should our neightbours sell in the future - highly highly unlikely but it's covered for little effort and cost.   

[marmic]

4 minutes ago, flanagaj said:

That's interesting.  I wasn't aware that they state that they are not definitive.  

as i said previously:  land registry plans don't always reflect accurately whats on the ground/history etc.   

 

Our previous house had a fenceline that was angled to the one side  -  but straight on land registry which would have given us a slightly larger garden  - I asked solicitor and he said something along the lines of you've seen on the ground what you are buying, by disputing what the register indicates could open a can of worms, be expensive, and quite possibly not get you anywhere.

 

boundaries can get messy - somebody I know bought a large plot, the vendor split the original title with a large hedgeline between fields being agreed as the boundary (I don't recall if there was a fence inside the hedge) - then proceeded to erect a fence on the side they had just sold (when the purchaser was away!).  It went legal and the fence had to be taken down with all costs covered by vendor.  They clearly wanted control of hedge as then applied for planning for multiple houses in the field they had retained, which was refused anyway.  I've heard the term landcreep used......... correct or not I  have no idea

[Mr Punter]

The drawing does not show the hedge.  Can you overlay the topo you had done?  It would be useful if it included the kerbs, telegraph poles, inspection chamber covers and any other fixed points, so there is something to reference.  Measuring to the middle of a straggly hedge will probably not help much.

[Russell griffiths]

1 hour ago, flanagaj said:

That's interesting.  I wasn't aware that they state that they are not definitive.  

Our boundary which is a kilometre long is out by over 3 m give or take a bit, the fat red line on the land registry plan is rough at best. 

[Mr Punter]

I once bought a tight plot with consent for a new house.  The consented scheme just would not fit, no matter which way it was shifted. We went back to planning with a revised scheme.

[saveasteading]

Apart from this specific case.

It's a good idea to record the boundaries with any clear feature, pegs or posts, and take photos.

File the pictures away and after a period of time they become definitive in law.

[flanagaj]

Given their is a fence and the hedging resides on our side of said fencing, it's interesting how they own the hedging.  I'm in two minds to just rip it out and crack on.  The thick red line on the Land Registry Title Plan document probably equates to 300mm when you apply the scale, I think it would be difficult for a boundary dispute to materialise.

[saveasteading]

Don't rip out a historic hedge without permission. 

These are the way to mark blatantly, and let anyone with an issue see them. Then take pictures.  Then replace  with chestnut posts for posterity.

[flanagaj]

18 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

Don't rip out a historic hedge without permission. 

These are the way to mark blatantly, and let anyone with an issue see them. Then take pictures.  Then replace  with chestnut posts for posterity.

It isn't marked as historic hedging and wasn't stated as such by Natural England

[G and J]

We owned a hedge, we planted it, and the land to the outer side. We then put a dog proof fence on the inside.

[marmic]

27 minutes ago, flanagaj said:

Given their is a fence and the hedging resides on our side of said fencing, it's interesting how they own the hedging.  I'm in two minds to just rip it out and crack on.  The thick red line on the Land Registry Title Plan document probably equates to 300mm when you apply the scale, I think it would be difficult for a boundary dispute to materialise.

Fence doesn't always mean the boundary. You said originally hedge was neighbours.  Assumption or has something changed?

[marmic]

3 minutes ago, flanagaj said:

It isn't marked as historic hedging and wasn't stated as such by Natural England

Tpo map?

[flanagaj]

The Architects have basically said it's not their problem.

 

"I have checked the drawings and I don’t believe there is an error.

 

I have spoken to the surveyor and it seems that the issue is that you are having trouble determining the ownership boundary. The land registry plans provided are vague (as they always are) and therefore the fence line has been indicated as the boundary as this would typically define a legal boundary. If you are unsure then you should speak to your neighbour or appoint a specialist legal consultant.

 

If it transpires that the dimensions shown on the approved planning drawings are altered significantly due to the building being relocated then an amendment to the permission should be sought.

 

Please note that as stated on the drawings “All drawings marked preliminary or planning are not to be built or manufactured from.” And “Boundary line indicative only. Exact location  must be determined on site before building work commences.” And in the Scope of services “The consultant is not responsible for ascertaining property boundary lines or any restrictive covenants. Should the Client be uncertain about their property boundaries he/she should consult Land Registry or their solicitor to determine these.”

[Gus Potter]

On 08/10/2025 at 19:48, flanagaj said:

The architects who gained us our planning position appear to have messed up with regards to our boundary.   On our drawings it's showing at 1.4m, but when I measure from the road edge, I get about 600mm and it means that to build the house will require me to literally rip out the neighbours scrappy hedging.  At no point were we consulted about the boundary and who owned the messy hedging.  Surely, they should have been cautious and pulled it away from the hedge.

Hiya.

 

First thing is that we feel for you, it's a scunner and very stressful.

 

We can see you are commited and enthusiastic, previous posts about your stair case etc. 

 

Key thing is not to allow this to grow arms and legs. What we are looking for is the Occam's razor solution. The simple solution.

 

Most importantly, you need to identify all the issues before alerting the planners and your neighbours that you have "a potential issue". Keep this under your hat for now!

 

I'll drop you an email.