Heat Geek Zero disruption ASHP

[JohnMo]

Was pushed a heat geek video, on their marvelous zero disruption AI quote system and install service, so out of interest thought I would give it try.

 

You put in your address, and a few seconds later out pops a quote - very quick, very easy, you can then accept the quote and move on to a £250 full survey etc.

 

So it has my floor area, so must have access to EPC database etc 

 

The things it has wrong - I need to upgrade radiators anything from 2 to 13 depending on efficiency target. I have UFH?

 

My heat loss is 6.7kW, it's closer to 3.2kW at -5.

 

They would install a 10kW Vaillant heat pump. I currently have a 6kW and it's huge, why would I need a 10kW?

 

Then there is the cost - £16 600!

 

Like heat geek for it's ideas, but this is a bit of a joke. The heating requirements in the EPC isn't very different from actual, but suspect they choose age of build, foot print and apply a rule of thumb.

 

Anyone else tried?

[JamesPa]

58 minutes ago, JohnMo said:

Like heat geek for it's ideas, but this is a bit of a joke. The heating requirements in the EPC isn't very different from actual, but suspect they choose age of build, foot print and apply a rule of thumb.

 

Anyone else tried?

Yes of course I did!

 

Their online heat loss estimate was closer than the two 'professional' surveys I had done, 10.5kW (Heat Geek AI) vs 16kW (2 3hr surveys), actual 7kW, and it makes it clear that the loss estimate may change when they visit  Setting this aside because, as you know, I severely doubt any heat loss estimate that has not been 'sense checked' against measurements, I like the concept. 

 

The key new thing is that they seem to be offering you the choice between various flow temperatures (=number of rad upgrades vs efficiency) and between swapping out or not swapping out the DHW tank if you have one.  I have long argued that installers should do this so that people can make their own informed trade off between the 'ultimate' upgrade for max capital cost and 'just good enough with the option for an easy future enhancement' for minimum initial capital cost.  Not everyone has access to infinite capital funds, and sacrificing long term cost for short term capital saving is commonplace.  People take out mortgages, lease cars etc costing much more in the end but making the transaction possible.  I see no reason why the same concept should not be applied to heating upgrades, rather than installers offering only the Rolls Royce every time (and then, all to often, delivering a Rolls Royce but with a mis-sized engine, the wrong wheels and ugly accessories that weigh the car down and cripple fuel consumption).

Edited Saturday at 08:34 by JamesPa

[marshian]

51 minutes ago, JohnMo said:

Anyone else tried?

Old HG quote system yes - new one no (not yet)

 

it gave me an install cost of £6500 after BUS grant 

 

I fully accepted it was a mile out for multiple reasons

 

it doesn’t know

 

1. what improvements have been done to the in terms of insulation

 

2. All the rads are now twice the size of originals (which were fed by a non condensing boiler from the 80’s)

 

3. I’m already running low temp heating (25-35 flow)

 

4. the house has never had an EPC so it can’t look to that

 

so I didn’t mind the fact it was a mile out

 

 

 

 

Edited Saturday at 08:27 by marshian
Spelling

[marshian]

Heat loss predicted 6.7 kWh

 

proposed 7kW Valiant Aerotherm

 

£6300 after BUS grant

 

But there are a lot of “extras” I didn’t select like new HW tank

 

It works better as a first pass but I’m not going to proceed with £250 fee for a proper assessment

[JamesPa]

3 hours ago, marshian said:

It works better as a first pass but I’m not going to proceed with £250 fee for a proper assessment

I think its only intended as a first pass to filter out prospects that are unlikely to proceed.

 

There is a real problem so far as I can for anyone quoting for an ASHP namely that, to do a proper quote you need a proper survey, and that's a lengthy business.  For a supplier to 'give away' a survey on the off chance that it may turn into a sale is unlikely to be cost effective (although some do), similarly for an individual to pay the fee which is typically £250-300 is a fair commitment, particularly since surveys are non transferrable. 

 

Thus both the supplier and the customer need some sort of pre-qualification mechanism whereby they establish that there is a fair chance that the supplier will be selected.

 

The several suppliers I contacted took various approaches to this.  One did a full survey FOC, another would barely talk to me at all without first paying a fee.  Most did an assessment based on a 30min visit or call and quoted based on that but subject to full survey.  I think the HG online form basically does this first stage. 

 

I cant currently see a way round this conundrum TBH, other than by establishing independent survey companies who guarantee their results, so that surveys are transferrable.  Cant see that happening.  Since any decent installer will be able to get a good feel from the EPC (if there is one) and a short visit, I personally think the quote subject to full survey approach is as good as we are going to get, at least until the industry accepts that records of half hourly gas consumption plus a questionnaire to determine heating patterns is a valid measure (or at least a sense check) on loss.

 

 

Edited Saturday at 12:05 by JamesPa

[TerryE]

The £250 is probably a fare cost of doing an assessment and writing up the report. "Free" means that they need recover the cost factored by win rate, say £1K, on the wins.

 

I think the upfront cost is farer because those that decide to go with Heat Geek don't end up paying for spurious surveys. 

[JamesPa]

9 minutes ago, TerryE said:

Free" means that they need recover the cost factored by win rate, say £1K, on the wins.

I doubt it's anything like as good as 4:1, particularly after you take into account the people who back out altogether.  

Edited Saturday at 12:45 by JamesPa

[SteamyTea]

3 hours ago, TerryE said:

The £250 is probably a fare cost of doing an assessment and writing up the report. "Free" means that they need recover the cost factored by win rate, say £1K, on the wins

 

3 hours ago, JamesPa said:

doubt it's anything like as good as 4:1,

Wish our showroom had that conversation rate, though our metric is spending per head.

 

[sharpener]

On 04/10/2025 at 08:35, JohnMo said:

Was pushed a heat geek video, on their marvelous zero disruption AI quote system and install service, so out of interest thought I would give it try.

 

Similar to the two alternatives Octopus now offer for their Cosy HP installs. Seems a sensible approach to me, not everyone wants/can afford/has the space for a new HW tank and enormous rads as @JamesPa says.

On the subject of survey hit rate I had 2 free full surveys out of 6 installers contacted, the others were ruled out for one reason other. One of the two got the job so for him 100%(!). I would have thought installers would want to screen clients so they are achieving 3:1 or better, or the cost and more importantly the waste of skilled manhours would simply be unviable.

[JamesPa]

8 hours ago, sharpener said:

I would have thought installers would want to screen clients so they are achieving 3:1 or better, or the cost and more importantly the waste of skilled manhours would simply be unviable.

Doubtless they will but they wont all have been on a course on qualifying prospects.  I haven't either but I imagine that its an inexact science.

Edited yesterday at 19:29 by JamesPa

[sharpener]

2 hours ago, JamesPa said:

Doubtless they will but they wont all have been on a course on qualifying prospects.  I haven't either but I imagine that its an inexact science.

 

Certainly but in any line of business you must get a nose for the brain-pickers no-hopers and time wasters.

 

We once were approached by ppl who wanted to solve overheating in an electric motor. We suggested various solutions ranging from a simple thermal model in s/w to embedding sensors in some representative part of the motor or indeed in a physical thermal model (like a simmerstat).

 

Total waste of time bc:

• they didn't want to make any h/w or s/w changes (eh, how was that going to work?)
• even under NDA they wouldn't tell us enough about the motor, the application or the production quantities
• they didn't want to spend any money

Yes you have guessed it the overheating motors were in the infamous Sinclair C5.

[SteamyTea]

15 hours ago, sharpener said:

Sinclair C5

I did some work on the C5.

Had to black out the factory windows.

 

[Nickfromwales]

1 hour ago, SteamyTea said:

I did some work on the C5.

Had to black out the factory windows.

 

The Tesla of the 80’s lol. 

[SteamyTea]

30 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

The Tesla of the 80’s lol. 

Set BEVs back 25 years.

Some the the guys at work really bought into the concept.

Most of us just thought it was a replacement for this.

 

[Nickfromwales]

I want one.