Architectural Aluminium

[worldwidewebs]

For those of you that have used some architectural aluminium details on your house, did you get quotes and place your order based on your plans or did you get them out to measure once the house was up? 

So far I'm looking at Dales Eaves and Guttercrest - can anyone recommend any other suppliers or installers?

[Bitpipe]

I got quotes from Guttercrest and others off plan initially but the guy I used (Essex based so bit far for you!) came to measure up as well.

I was surprised how much on site work was required to get everything fitted - even though the MBC houses are pretty square etc, there were a lot of cuts.

Box ends, where barge, soffits & fasica meet were templated and fabed off site. All other angles were mitered on site  - could probably have got them welded also at extra cost.

If you buy from Guttercrest, keep in mind that they sell stock lengths so there will still be plenty of on site work.

[TerryE]

We used Kytun dry verges, and custom folds for our eaves and verges.  The result is fantastic. Ordered direct from the manufacturer.   Absolutely no issues. Both Jan and I are delighted with the result and the slater was impressed with the dry verge system.   But it was a work of origami in aluminium doing the corners, etc.

[worldwidewebs]

7 hours ago, TerryE said:

We used Kytun dry verges, and custom folds for our eaves and verges.  The result is fantastic. Ordered direct from the manufacturer.   Absolutely no issues. Both Jan and I are delighted with the result and the slater was impressed with the dry verge system.   But is was a work of origami in aluminium doing the corners, etc.

Cheers Terry. My plan is to use that system based on what I think you'd posted on the other site  

[worldwidewebs]

8 hours ago, Bitpipe said:

I got quotes from Guttercrest and others off plan initially but the guy I used (Essex based so bit far for you!) came to measure up as well.

I was surprised how much on site work was required to get everything fitted - even though the MBC houses are pretty square etc, there were a lot of cuts.

Box ends, where barge, soffits & fasica meet were templated and fabed off site. All other angles were mitered on site  - could probably have got them welded also at extra cost.

If you buy from Guttercrest, keep in mind that they sell stock lengths so there will still be plenty of on site work.

Cheers Hugh. This is the one area that has me in cold sweats! The soffits and facias I'm ok with, it's all the coping and flashing detail. The architect has suggested that I need additional detail drawings (££££) but I feel he just has to think about it and explain it a bit better. I may well just get the top work done first while the scaffold is up and then tackle the rest later.

[TerryE]

Yup, I did a post on eBuild.  We had originally planned to slate after the stone skin was up, pretty much as Ed @Construction Channel described in one of his recent YouTube videos, but my builder and his stonemason had a fall out and we had a small problem with planning enforcement which meant that we couldn't wait and had to do the slating first.  The folded aluminium detailing saved our bacon and made this doable without compromising the look of the house.

We did the detailing ourselves working ahead of the slater. This made sense to us both, as the corners were fiddly and took time to get right.  This meant that the slater could bash on at what he was good at.  A decent pair of tin snips and some round head outdoor Japan black screws are essential.

[Woodgnome]

I got all my stuff from Wemico. Reasonable price and easy to deal with. Just draw the profiles you want and they can supply it. 

They did the flashing above stonework, framing around window and the sill, drip profile above window. I used Kytun slate verge. I also had Ali Fascias, can't remember where they came from at the minute. Don't need architect to draw it up, just use a bit of common sense and thought.

 

Edited June 17, 2016 by Woodgnome

[Stones]

Try this company (I'm getting my window cills from them);

http://www.mspcladding.co.uk/

I've been dealing with Derek in sales, and he has been very helpful.  Their paint shop can finish to any RAL colour, and they are happy to supply any type of folded aluminium profile - fascias, soffit, general cladding etc

They are keenly priced and can fabricate to your requirements. I'm getting my cills made to my requirements for around 1/2 the price the window company wanted for their cills (which only came in a limited range of sizes).  They recently priced up bespoke aluminium guttering for me, again a lot better priced (1/2) than anything I've seen online, but sadly out of my price range. 

Derek is aware that he may be getting enquiries from forum members, and is happy to quote for small orders, so be sure to mention the forum by name.

I don't have my cills yet, but I have seen examples of the paintwork their paintshop produces, which all looked first class.

 

[worldwidewebs]

Some really useful info there guys - really, really appreciated   I'm probably guilty of trying to think of too much, too soon and should probably hold back a little but I find getting little bits of information here and there is really helping me plan the various elements. 

Given what you know now (and based on the fact we're getting MBC in), would you suggest we wait until the frame is up and the roof slated before getting the facias/soffits measured or just order off the plans so that we can get it done as quickly as possible? I don't really want to be paying for the scaffolding any longer than I need to but happy to keep it up if that's the better/safer way!

[Bitpipe]

14 hours ago, worldwidewebs said:

Some really useful info there guys - really, really appreciated   I'm probably guilty of trying to think of too much, too soon and should probably hold back a little but I find getting little bits of information here and there is really helping me plan the various elements. 

Given what you know now (and based on the fact we're getting MBC in), would you suggest we wait until the frame is up and the roof slated before getting the facias/soffits measured or just order off the plans so that we can get it done as quickly as possible? I don't really want to be paying for the scaffolding any longer than I need to but happy to keep it up if that's the better/safer way!

In a word, yes. See what you have got before you make any final decisions. Not sure if detailed architectural drawings will help, and I'd advise against ordering off plan, measure the actual build. Most of the alu will be stock lengths and powder coating will take a few days.

Our guy was on the roof as the scaffolding was coming down around him (I had warned him) and he did all the rest on ladders.

Would advise on getting a supply and fit quote as well as supply only (and DIY) it is a fiddly business and 'on show' so make sure you know what you're taking on  

Edited June 18, 2016 by Bitpipe
Added crucial word :)

[worldwidewebs]

Thanks Hugh. Great advice and much appreciated

[Jeremy Harris]

As above, wait until the frame is up and finished, as the best solution for boxing eaves and verges will probably arise from looking at what you've got. 

We also used the Kytun aluminium verge, it really is very neat indeed, especially in black with slates.  I looked at using aluminium for the rest, but ended up using black uPVC, as that meant I could use the thick structural (internally foamed) stuff and not need to use timber eaves and soffits and then clad them.  It did sort of go a bit against the grain, using uPVC, but I have to say the finish is very nice and it was really the only practical solution for the 500mm deep soffit under the gable overhang (bearing in mind I wanted a maintenance-free solution).

The downside with uPVC (and probably dark coloured aluminium) is the way it expands and contracts in the sun.  There is a great deal of movement along the length of the house at the front (the South elevation) and although it doesn't seem to make any loud noises, the gutters do "walk" a lot.  I ended up fitting tiny stainless self-tappers either side of the gutter joints, to stop them constantly being pulled apart.  On one occasion, one section of gutter had shifted around 100mm one way, just from gradual expansion and contraction every day.

Mind you, uPVC expands around 2.5 times more than aluminium, so is probably more of a problem when it comes to movement.

[ProDave]

10 hours ago, JSHarris said:

The downside with uPVC (and probably dark coloured aluminium) is the way it expands and contracts in the sun.  There is a great deal of movement along the length of the house at the front (the South elevation) and although it doesn't seem to make any loud noises, the gutters do "walk" a lot.

 

Interesting point.

I have wooden fascias that I intend to over clad with aluminium.  Do you think the likely expansion over a 4 metre length would be such that I should machine slots, rather than holes, for the fixing screws?

[Jeremy Harris]

It might be an idea to minimise the risk of any rippling from expansion.

[Bitpipe]

We have small expansion gaps in the parapets and in the longer soffit / fascia/ guttering runs of alu, they put a small pieces of offcuts behind them to make it less obvious.

[beenthere]

I'm new, but we have just finished installing 2mm aluminium fascia over the existing timber, and Marley Alutec extruded aluminium guttering. All powder coated in black. The job has turned out really well. The thicker aluminium makes such a difference to the look and feel of the whole deal.

It was expensive, but should be a long term/rest of life solution. The site is not exposed, and there's no salt about - we have powder coated aluminium windows installed in the early 80s the finish on which is still spot on. (other than a slight matting in places)

One to be careful of is the quality of the powder coating. The BS standard for architectural aluminium (or the Qualicoat process) requires the normal multi step degrease/wash/acid etch/wash/passivate/wash/powwer coat/bake process - and a decently thick >60 micron powder coating.

There's been a rash of problems here (Ireland) where budget suppliers have been buying mill finish aluminium from suppliers and having it powder coated locally. They throw the powder on without the prep steps, and it often falls off a couple of years later leaving the customer high and dry...

Edited July 21, 2016 by beenthere

[Fallingditch]

On 17/06/2016 at 10:16, TerryE said:

Yup, I did a post on eBuild:  " Our LPA is very against anyone using boxed soffits, facias or bargeboards on the eaves and verges on traditional-style cottages (despite both the 200+ year-old stone cottages on either side having boxed soffits), so we need to make the verge and eave treatments as muted as possible".

 

I am trying to work through the slate roof detailing on my block and block and Marley eternit weatherborded rectangular footprint house.

 

Every article or reference I read assumes the existence of soffits, fascias abd bargeboards - then I read this post !

 

So I guess the question is Terry, was it the Kytun 'custom folds' you referred to meant that soffits and fascias were not required?

 

[TerryE]

The aluminium custom folds have an upstand of around 100mm which is largely hidden by the rain gutter which sits in front of this.  The horizontal section is ~200mm deep, but our stone skin has a 3 course stepped brick header which effectively steps out 60mm over the three courses.  The aluminium steps out another 25mm so is just about visible from below.  The remaining 175mm is used as an interface to brick up against.   All of these high-jinks are needed because we had to put out slate roof on before we started lifting the stone skin.

 

Having done this, I believe that this was also the correct order since the timber frame was fully loaded before we added the stone skin and this minimised any differential movement between the two.

 

Our stone mason is still only up to 1st floor cill level, but when this is complete, I will post some explanatory pics.

Edited August 20, 2016 by TerryE