Any recommendations for reliable smoke and carbon monoxide alarms?

[Beau]

Having problems with pretty new stand alone ones as they go off for no reason so both have been removed to aid sleep. Clearly I need to sort some new ones pronto but dont want this nonsense again. Are any stand alone ones good or do I need to fit hardwired ones to get reliability? Thanks

[JohnMo]

Really wouldn't do stand alone get them linked. Buy ones with a 10 year lithium battery units, that self radio link together. No smoke alarm in kitchen, use a heat detecting alarm, which interlinks to smoke alarms elsewhere in property.

 

Alarms need binning after 10 years, so no advantage having mains powered really.

 

Wouldn't touch a smart smoke alarm, get tried and tested brands.

 

Aico, etc.

 

If you want a robust system, follow the Scottish rules, way more robust than the English rules. 

 

https://www.mygov.scot/home-fire-safety

 

[Redbeard]

I have had many more problems with nuisance tripping with my 3 linked mains-fed alarms than with any battery alarm over 30+ years. I now use the 10-year sealed ones. Mains-fed was a stipulation of BCO but they did not have to live with the jolly things going off at random times. We have not-linked but functional alarms in the relevant areas which do not nuisance-trip.

[Alan Ambrose]

We have 3 Nest ones that seem to work OK.

[andyscotland]

19 minutes ago, Alan Ambrose said:

We have 3 Nest ones that seem to work OK.

 

I believe they're being discontinued - possibly partly because AFAIK they don't meet the building regulations requirements as they're not certified to the relevant British Standard and interlink over WiFi so won't work if your router is on fire.

 

1 hour ago, Redbeard said:

I have had many more problems with nuisance tripping with my 3 linked mains-fed alarms than with any battery alarm over 30+ years. I now use the 10-year sealed ones. Mains-fed was a stipulation of BCO but they did not have to live with the jolly things going off at random times. We have not-linked but functional alarms in the relevant areas which do not nuisance-trip.

 

Depending on the circumstances of your nuisance trips this would suggest perhaps:

 

* The mains alarms were doing a better job of detecting actual smoke (burned toast etc) than the old battery ones. I'd say that's a benefit but might mean they weren't the right types or locations of alarms for your property.

* They were mains powered but radio interlinked and perhaps not properly house coded (or from one of the cheaper brands) so picking up interference from elsewhere.

* They were mains interlinked but with a fault in the interlink wiring causing unwanted triggers.

 

I'd say interlinked alarms (from a decent manufacturer) have a lot of safety benefits over standalone ones in terms of detecting and more importantly waking the occupants in time to evacuate - especially if mains powered and wired interlinked.

 

If you do occasionally get cooking smoke etc spilling out of the kitchen to the rest of the house then you can minimise impact of nuisance trips with a remote control to silence alarms next to the cooker (much easier than running around the house flapping a tea towel 🤣)

 

 

[JohnMo]

1 minute ago, andyscotland said:

mains alarms were doing a better job of detecting actual smoke (burned toast etc)

That's why you don't install smokes in kitchens, you do heat detectors so they detect real fires, not a cooking smoke. Been using heat detectors in kitchens (various houses) and smokes elsewhere - never had a nuisance trip.

[crispy_wafer]

AICO, should cover most, if not all needs

[andyscotland]

8 minutes ago, JohnMo said:

That's why you don't install smokes in kitchens, you do heat detectors so they detect real fires, not a cooking smoke. Been using heat detectors in kitchens (various houses) and smokes elsewhere - never had a nuisance trip.

 

Absolutely, but I've seen places where a smoke alarm has been mounted outside a kitchen but near enough to it (or further away but in the natural path of airflow from the kitchen through the house) that it triggers.

 

I agree with a well designed system & correct selection/location of heads there shouldn't be an issue.

[JohnMo]

9 minutes ago, andyscotland said:

 

Absolutely, but I've seen places where a smoke alarm has been mounted outside a kitchen but near enough to it (or further away but in the natural path of airflow from the kitchen through the house) that it triggers.

 

I agree with a well designed system & correct selection/location of heads there shouldn't be an issue.

Think you have missed my point. In Scotland you are not allowed to install smoke alarms in kitchens - you have to install heat alarms. They are not the same thing.

[Kelvin]

This is an area where you don’t want to be relying on the Internet of Shit ‘smart’ devices.  Have them in addition if you must. In Scotland it needs to be a heat alarm in the kitchen and smoke detectors elsewhere. We have AICO albeit mains. 

[andyscotland]

2 hours ago, JohnMo said:

Think you have missed my point. In Scotland you are not allowed to install smoke alarms in kitchens - you have to install heat alarms. They are not the same thing.

No, I think maybe you've missed mine 😁

 

Absolutely, kitchen should have a heat alarm.

 

However, it is possible for cooking smoke to leave the kitchen (especially if an extractor hood is not in use) and depending on the layout and airflow in the house that can make it to a smoke alarm elsewhere (e.g. in a location where it is compliant/required such as a hallway or landing). With an interlinked system this can then cause a nuisance alarm on the whole system.

 

I'd only got mentioned it because of @Redbeard commenting they'd had a lot of nuisance alarms on their newer interlinked system : one possible explanation is that the smoke alarms were in different locations to the old standalone ones, or that they were more sensitive/reliable than the old ones thus picking up kitchen smoke wafting around outside the kitchen.

[Beau]

Thanks for the suggestions. 

 

Mine were Fire Angel with the a built in 10 year battery so not cheapies but they haven't managed a year. I was just wondering if dust gets into them can that mess them up long term? I'm doing major renovations and at times the house has been full of dust, once quite fairly triggering the smoke alarm.  

[Nickfromwales]

1 minute ago, Beau said:

I'm doing major renovations and at times the house has been full of dust, once quite fairly triggering the smoke alarm.  

Then you have destroyed these, basically. They come with dust covers, and they need to be in place every time you do work.

 

Try buying a can of air duster and blasting the grot out, but you've shot yourself in the foot here.

[Kelvin]

48 minutes ago, Beau said:

Thanks for the suggestions. 

 

Mine were Fire Angel with the a built in 10 year battery so not cheapies but they haven't managed a year. I was just wondering if dust gets into them can that mess them up long term? I'm doing major renovations and at times the house has been full of dust, once quite fairly triggering the smoke alarm.  

I didn’t remove the dust covers until after we moved in as the dust can knacker them.

[andyscotland]

1 hour ago, Beau said:

Thanks for the suggestions. 

 

Mine were Fire Angel with the a built in 10 year battery so not cheapies but they haven't managed a year. I was just wondering if dust gets into them can that mess them up long term? I'm doing major renovations and at times the house has been full of dust, once quite fairly triggering the smoke alarm.  

 

Yeah as others have said dust and smoke alarms do not mix.

 

If you are still doing works and want some temporary protection then you could consider heat alarms (which can be suitable for dusty environments) and then replace with smokes at the end of the project - however these take longer to detect a fire so may not be suitable if you are living/sleeping there. 

 

Otherwise you need to cap them (or remove them) any time the house is dusty and/or treat them as consumables if you're sleeping there during works and want peace of mind that you'll get early warning to evacuate overnight.

[Beau]

7 hours ago, Kelvin said:

I didn’t remove the dust covers until after we moved in as the dust can knacker them.

Obvious when you think about it but just something I overlooked until yesterday.

 

We live and learn as they say 🙂

Edited 13 hours ago by Beau

[Kelvin]

2 hours ago, Beau said:

Obvious when you think about it but just something I overlooked until yesterday.

 

We live and learn as they say 🙂

If you’ve never installed a new one you wouldn’t necessarily guess that dust can wreck them.  There are likely millions of non-working smoking detectors out there. Essex fire service issued a report that said 70% of fire related deaths were in households with non-working smoke detectors.