Possible rethink required

[flanagaj]

So our first window and door quote came back today and I nearly choked on my coffee.  70k including installation seemed like an awful lot of money.  I actually have no idea what is realistic when it comes to windows and doors.  

[BadgerBodger]

I found that once I got most of the bigger players discussed here down to the same spec and scope there were much of a muchness for the material cost +\- 10% or so. 
 

It was the fitting that varied the most and I just want entirely sure with some that I wouldn’t get more costs down the line. In some cases fitting wasn’t offered. 
 

Installation, surveying and delivery varied the most being between 40 and 60% of the material cost. 
 

We went to VELFAC, Nordan, Norrsken, Rational, internorm & 21 degrees. Or relevant rep installers. Some were just plain difficult to deal with and went off the list. We’ve needed up with Norrsken based upon reading here and elsewhere. Would have like Nordan (used before) but they didn’t offer fitting. Being honest the Norrsken windows are the only ones we haven’t seen but in reality IMHO they were very similar with the main leading difference being the larger the frame size, the more “solid” they felt. 

I wasn’t so keen on the Belgae ironmongery (too spindly) and it was the flimsier feeling of them all. 
 

The only exception being the internorm lift and slide which was truly magnificent! 

[Redbeard]

I realise complexity makes £/m2 costs a bit meaningless, but my GBS (21 Degrees) 3G wins came out at about £735/m2 supply only in 2022/23.

 

(Tried to send you a PM re another firm but apparently you cannot receive messages...)

[nod]

If you have the budget 

We spent 40k on a kitchen Supply only and 30 on windows and door supply 

We had quotes similar to yours for supply from intercom and a couple of others that I’d seen on here 

But couldn’t justify 

 

Im working on a house and he’s paid 8k per pain of glass 8 in total and they have been craned out today due to collecting water Hes over 300 k for glass and exterior doors 

[flanagaj]

Estimators online came in at 23k ex vat.  I appreciate they spec'd double glazed aluminium and I have no idea who they benchmark their prices from, but it's a significant difference.  I am waiting for Norrsken to come back with a quote, but if that too comes back double, then I'll have to look at others.  Ideally, didn't want to spend more than 35k plus fitting.

[Russell griffiths]

Fit them yourself, it’s money for old rope, the hardest part is actually lifting them up, another strong mate and your done. 
 

i don’t know why people think it’s complicated to fit a few screws in some brackets. 
 

the air sealing you will make a better job than the fitters anyway. 

[ToughButterCup]

In addition to @Russell griffiths point above, it took 7 of us to place this window - and, once placed, fitted it with four strapping lads. 3mm spare all round.

I lost more sleep about getting that right than any other single issue.

 

[saveasteading]

20 hours ago, flanagaj said:

Estimators online came in at 23k ex vat.

I was an Estimator. I kept a wbb (wee black book) of handy approximations for a first run through. For windows this was timber/upvc/aluminium/ fancy.

The £/m2 was calculated from real projects and were surprisingly accurate.  So I would hope and expect that your estimator was about right.

 

9 hours ago, Russell griffiths said:

i don’t know why people think it’s complicated to fit a few screws in some brackets. 

Because the glass is part of the squaring and strength, and has to be right.   Ever fitted a glazed door? It flops all over until packed and tight.

 

If they turn up fully glazed then that part is resolved but the supply price will be higher and the lifting more onerous.

 

Also. The lesser window suppliers allow excessive tolerance to make fitting easier. That suggests they don't find it that easy.

[flanagaj]

1 hour ago, saveasteading said:

So I would hope and expect that your estimator was about right.

That's reassuring.  The first quote was from Rationel, so hoping the others might come in more aligned to the estimation.  Yes, the did quote for DG and not TG as that quoted by Rationel, but I think it's a 30% uplift in price from DG to TG?

[Russell griffiths]

16 hours ago, saveasteading said:

I was an Estimator. I kept a wbb (wee black book) of handy approximations for a first run through. For windows this was timber/upvc/aluminium/ fancy.

The £/m2 was calculated from real projects and were surprisingly accurate.  So I would hope and expect that your estimator was about right.

 

Because the glass is part of the squaring and strength, and has to be right.   Ever fitted a glazed door? It flops all over until packed and tight.

 

If they turn up fully glazed then that part is resolved but the supply price will be higher and the lifting more onerous.

 

Also. The lesser window suppliers allow excessive tolerance to make fitting easier. That suggests they don't find it that easy.

 

Most triple glazed quality windows come pre glazed, I wouldn’t buy anything else. 

[saveasteading]

3 hours ago, Russell griffiths said:

come pre glazed

OK. So not wobbly but very heavy.

 

I encountered a new kind of window fixing bracket at an exhibition recently.

I should find it and tell the BH community.