reinforce retaining wall?

[stephanh]

The day before I started extension a retaining wall partly fell. It has lost 5 brick course plus capping from top, with the rest of the wall leaning over but seemingly not about to topple(I hope).

I have a listed building as the neighbouring property and have, apparently, to apply for planning to replace the wall(?)

I have thought that if I dig down behind existing wall, pour concrete foundation, build concrete block wall to reinforce existing I might then be able to to 'drag' back the leaning wall and secure to the reinforcement somehow.

Is this thinking total fantasy?

[Russell griffiths]

Pictures needed. 

Edited April 9 by Russell griffiths

[saveasteading]

It's not fantasy but it is very technical to prove and difficult to do.

How far away is the threatened house?

Your insurers may be interested.

 

Is the land beyond the wall yours or the neighbour's?

 

Who else is involved? Contractor, Engineer, Architect?

[Mr Punter]

What a pain.  Photos please.  You may need planning and listed building consent, party wall agreement and structural engineer involvement.

[stephanh]

Have been advised (by LPA) planning required. No listed building consent, we are just in the setting of a listed building. No party wall and no structural engineer.

It is only me, and my (very) depleted bank account.

Have had another look at wall and my original post was fanciful thinking. Need to be rather more pragmatic in the ideas area.

Not too sure how helpful photo is

[Russell griffiths]

Badly designed wall, using incorrect materials I’m afraid. 
it all needs pulling down, new foundations and a new wall of some description. 
I would go for something more flexible like sleepers or gabion baskets with a nice stone on the face. 

[saveasteading]

You could possibly build all new on your side then fill the gap with stone. 

I like the gabion basket idea, possibly leaning back into the wall.

No crossing the boundary required.

 

When did the toppling happen? Following the wet weather perhaps with resultant buildup of water and soil turning to slurry?

[Nickfromwales]

Yup. Needs a simple, robust resolve, so would go for a design and rebuild in masonry.
 

Drainage has probably been overlooked at the foot of the wall, further amplifying the issue.

[JohnMo]

12 hours ago, stephanh said:

Have been advised (by LPA) planning required. No listed building consent,

That really doesn't make sense. If no listed building consent required it not part of the listed building - fine. But why do you need planning to repair a dividing wall in a garden. Maybe you asked the wrong question or phrased it incorrectly?

 

If the wall belongs to next door? Pass the bricks back to them and let them do what ever they want with them.

 

If it belongs to you, go to B&Q get some gabions, go round your garden find nice stones, back fill gabion with bricks and face with nice stones. Do as you can afford it.

Edited April 10 by JohnMo

[stephanh]

Gabions - they had never entered my feeble mind. Like the idea, but the 'look' may be rather too modern for planning. No harm in trying though!

Other than that, I have mused about concrete post sunk in concrete founds with concrete gravel boards with a face of 7.3nm conc blocks. It may seem a little fanciful to believe planning would agree to that type of facing, but half of that particular wall is actually conc block work. Had not been aware of that until now.

Whatever I end up doing, I only want to do it once! 

 

 

[saveasteading]

1 hour ago, stephanh said:

the 'look' may be rather too modern for planning.

 

as you would see, gabions were my thought too. as an easy and non technical solution.

 

 I think the planners would love it once you have eased their decicion.  Tell them you would be filling the baskets with ...whatever they want to hear that also suits you.

 

Local rock faced and demolition rubble behind (and invisible) ???? and that it allows water to pass through it, and that wild flowers will grow in it.   Oh, and insects and reptiles.

 

Are gabion baskets modern?   The Egyptians 7,000 years ago used the principle with willow instead of wire. In the modern era they have been in wire at least 50 years (ie as long as I have been interested.)

[JohnMo]

2 hours ago, stephanh said:

may be rather too modern for planning

Still don't understand what the fig this has to do with planning - it's an existing wall between to two gardens? Where does planning come into it? Can anyone explain?

[saveasteading]

4 minutes ago, JohnMo said:

Can anyone explain

With a listed building almost everything is subject to planning.

I was reading about it only yesterday.  Any planning involving a listed building tends to take longer too, however irrelevant the matter is.

 

There has to be some limit though, and perhaps this is obscure enough to be worth the risk...after all you would be leaving the wall in place.

I can't see the planners being too bothered, if the wall is not conspicuous or ancient/interesting in its own right.

[JohnMo]

7 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

With a listed building almost everything is subject to planning.

 

23 hours ago, stephanh said:

Have been advised (by LPA) planning required. No listed building consent

If it anything to do with the listed building, listed building consent is mandatory and so is planning, without it at the extreme can lead to a custodial sentence. So the statement listed consent not required, means it's nothing to do with the listed building - or very bad advise (been there and been bitten).

 

If the house next door is listed and the OP building is not, and the wall is the OPs it certainly nothing to do with listed.

 

So why planning?

[Russell griffiths]

Planning will only get involved if you actually tell them. 
 

[JohnMo]

21 hours ago, Russell griffiths said:

Planning will only get involved if you actually tell them. 

But why is it a planning issue? But not a listed building consent issue as well? It either both or neither.

 

If it's a boundary to a listed building it needs both. But also needs the listed building owner involved as well. 

[stephanh]

It would seem that there are a number of people that have a question mark over the planning issue in this matter. I have to say that I am somewhat confused over it as well.

The way the planners have spoken about it is that the wall is within the 'setting' of a listed building. 

It would seem that the court of appeal has (in 2018) issued a decision with regard to how a listed building is physically experienced and therefore it is this that 'setting' is considered.

Just my luck, as is the fact that I now have 31 metres of open trench without being able to get a conc pour until Tuesday.

I am now spraying a water mist over the sides of trench (clay) with all fingers crossed that I can keep them intact.

The past week has not been without its trials .....

[ProDave]

On 10/04/2025 at 20:21, JohnMo said:

Still don't understand what the fig this has to do with planning - it's an existing wall between to two gardens? Where does planning come into it? Can anyone explain?

Neither do I.  But I have only seen a picture of a leaning wall, and have no context where this wall is in relation to the listed building, your build, or indeed any property boundary.  For all I know your build may be 50 metres away, or right at the bottom of the failing wall?

[stephanh]

The boundary wall between our bungalow and the listed building forms part of the curtilage of that listed building. Our bungalow is approx 6M away from the failing wall with a garden level approx 600mm higher than the garden of the listed building. The LB itself is approx 8M from the boundary wall and when standing in front of the centre of the failing part, sits at the 10 o'clock position with the nearest part being approx 15M away from that central point (I suppose a photo may be prefered, but cannot get it to load!).

Whilst I cannot see that this is necessarily a planning issue, I can understand that the court of appeal decision requires a planning decision. 

It is the court of appeal that has dropped the matter into the lap of LPA, but it is my bank account that would appear to be the suffering one. Now that really ticks me off.

 

[ProDave]

So pragmatic solution.  Leave the existing wall as it is.  No planning or anything needed to "fix" it.

 

On your side raise the ground with gabions to not quite the full height and infill behind.  This will give you a narrow raised strip on your side to plant a hedge or build a fence and stop the wall falling over.

[stephanh]

Setting a new wall back from the existing wall is the only way I can think of that would negate the planning issue. As you say prodave, there would be no interference with existing wall, it remains as is.

At least I would be able to provide something rather more structurally secure.

I can then deal with the existing wall when it eventually fails.

[saveasteading]

What would be the problem if the wall just continued to fall over? It is their wall?

[stephanh]

This is our wall (hurrah!) to maintain. Hopefully it will remain intact until I finish the extension, then I will apply myself a little more to it. BUT ........

Today I had conc pour into trench for extension founds ..............

all was well until the second lorry parked too close to the trench, collapse of trench commence! Managed to get vehicle away from the trench side before it slid into hole, but conc pour was all over the place.

Now left with sorting that piece of trench and debris along with the erratic levels of the drying concrete.

I cannot begin to explain the grief this place has given me.

[ProDave]

Foundations can be horrible, usually things get a lot easier when you are "out of the ground"

[saveasteading]

2 hours ago, stephanh said:

the erratic levels of the drying concrete.

Have a look tomorrow and report what the problem is, with photos. then the BH superbrain can help......i've been where you are and others will have too.    there are solutions..