LPA requesting extension. Any pearls of wisdom?

[flanagaj]

We received the below from the LPA Case Officer today and I wanted ask whether this is standard and what direction would people recommend?

 

"I have sent this to Biodiversity today but have to allow them a standard 2 week re-consultation window.

 

I am also chasing the last few outstanding consultation responses.

 

Bearing this in mind, can we please agree an extension of time for the application to 28 February 2025?

To confirm, there is no obligation for you to agree to an extension of time. Should the application lapse then it will still be an application that has to still be determined by the Local Planning Authority and would fall within a backlog of similarly expired applications that we are currently dealing with.

The advantage of having a timeframe against an application is that a greater priority is given to the determination of such applications because those with a timescale secured against them count towards performance statistics submitted to Central Government. I would reiterate however we are endeavouring to deal with all applications that we currently have within a timely manner, regardless of whether these remain within an agreed timescale or fall outside of this"

 

As to date we haven't received any feedback from the LPA regarding the proposal, even though our Architect has requested this a number of times.  Quite frustrating.

[Alan Ambrose]

I would say that 95% of the time most feel that to agree with the extension is the best course of action. No reason though to back off on the pressure or press for feedback. You could always propose a shorter extension but bear in mind that the LPA may run over the agreed time anyway and you don’t have great tools to prevent them. My LPA doesn’t even bother to ask for extensions.

[Johnnyt]

Why didn’t they request Biodiversity comment on submission like they did with the other consultees they are chasing up?

Overwhelmed and playing for time.

[kandgmitchell]

I'd say this is pretty standard these days. Usually best to go along with it, there's not much alternative to be honest.

[flanagaj]

So our Architect finally did receive some feedback today, but my excitement was short lived.  The LPA Case Officer's response was as follows.

I don’t have a problem with the principle of the development. Until we get all of the consultations in I am not able to confirm that this would result in a final positive recommendation however I would anticipate that if problems arise they could be considered and amendments could be made to overcome them.
 
It should be noted that given the number of objections the application has received, under the council’s scheme of delegation if I recommend the application for approval it will need to go to the Development Control Committee for determination.

I asked the Architect whether this was positive and his response was as follows.

Bit early I'd say.
The need for a committee determination not great. 
Allows for words in corridors by people with local influence!
 

This is frustrating as we had 4 objections from the NIMBY luddite neighbours who for some reason seem to enjoy opposing any changes on the lane.   The local parish representative neither objected or supported the application.
 

I was hoping the Case Officer might read the objections and just dismiss them.  Here is one objection and they are all pretty much the exact same (I think someone visited each neighbour)

"The design now proposed presents a significant change which I and my wife cannot support. The change from a single storey dwelling to a two-storey building, and one that is so close to the lane will be extremely imposing and will be totally out of character with the rural surroundings and the neighbouring buildings in the Lane. The Council has recently refused planning applications for anything other than single-storey buildings in White Lane, therefore we do not see how the Council could permit a two-storey development on this site. In addition, to our objections to the impact of the two-storey development from White Lane, there is also the objection to its visual and environmental impact on the view from the farmland rising at the back which is an AONB" 
 

Our proposed dwelling is the same distance from the road as the previous one.  The ridge height is the same.  The frontal massing of the proposal is less and although in an AONB, you cannot see the property from any of the local bridleways.  Admittedly, the trees in the ancient woodland behind the paddock that sits behind can see the property, but there are no public rights of way in the woodland.   Plus, at the beginning and end of the land are two 2 storey dwellings.  So really intrigued why it needs to go to committee where I suspect said 'words in corridors' might come into play.

 

[Havkey100]

I wish I had pushed a bit. Our original request from our case officer:

 

Apologies for the delay in responding. I can confirm I have now written the report for this proposal with a recommendation for approval. Please find attached the conditions for your agreement.

 

Due to the number of comments that are contrary to the officer recommendation the application must be published on the Council’s Circulated Schedule before a decision can be issued. The next CS will run from the 25^th April – 2^nd May. Whilst the application is on the CS Members can choose to call the application to Committee. If the application is not called in, it will be issued as a delegated approval by the 6^th May. If the application is called to Committee I will be in touch with the relevant dates.

 

It would be appreciated if you were able to agree to an extension of time to the 6^th May to accommodate the Circulated Schedule process.

 

They then changed their decision in the extension window forcing us to appeal (which we won after a 7 month delay!) I always wondered what may have happened if we had been obtuse. Probably our case officer's line manager would have been still on leave and we would have avoided the lost time...

[flanagaj]

1 hour ago, Havkey100 said:

I wish I had pushed a bit. Our original request from our case officer:

 

Apologies for the delay in responding. I can confirm I have now written the report for this proposal with a recommendation for approval. Please find attached the conditions for your agreement.

 

Due to the number of comments that are contrary to the officer recommendation the application must be published on the Council’s Circulated Schedule before a decision can be issued. The next CS will run from the 25^th April – 2^nd May. Whilst the application is on the CS Members can choose to call the application to Committee. If the application is not called in, it will be issued as a delegated approval by the 6^th May. If the application is called to Committee I will be in touch with the relevant dates.

 

It would be appreciated if you were able to agree to an extension of time to the 6^th May to accommodate the Circulated Schedule process.

 

They then changed their decision in the extension window forcing us to appeal (which we won after a 7 month delay!) I always wondered what may have happened if we had been obtuse. Probably our case officer's line manager would have been still on leave and we would have avoided the lost time...

Just wondering how much you can push and knowing how you push.  I sometimes think that the LPA refuse the PP so as to appease the local neighbourhood, knowing that the application will get approved at appeal.   I suspect it goes on a great deal and they should be reprimanded for wasting both the appellant's and those who deal with the appeal's time.

[Alan Ambrose]

Reading the officer’s feedback, I think they’re saying:

 

+ it is going to the planning committee, so prepare.

+ he/she thinks they can negotiate a couple of small amendments to the design, making it ‘acceptable’.

The good news is that they’re not saying that two storey won’t fly. If they thought that, they would probably say that clearly right now, and you might be back to the drawing board or filing an appeal.

 

Yes, the applecart could still be overturned, but I think things are looking OK. Fish for the amendments (which consultees have not replied yet?) so you have time to think about them and negotiate them. I wonder if a couple of supporting neighbours would tip the balance. Question for your architect maybe?

 

[flanagaj]

12 minutes ago, Alan Ambrose said:

Reading the officer’s feedback, I think they’re saying:

 

+ it is going to the planning committee, so prepare.

+ he/she thinks they can negotiate a couple of small amendments to the design, making it ‘acceptable’.

The good news is that they’re not saying that two storey won’t fly. If they thought that, they would probably say that clearly right now, and you might be back to the drawing board or filing an appeal.

 

Yes, the applecart could still be overturned, but I think things are looking OK. Fish for the amendments (which consultees have not replied yet?) so you have time to think about them and negotiate them. I wonder if a couple of supporting neighbours would tip the balance. Question for your architect maybe?

 

Thanks Alan.  

"it is going to the planning committee, so prepare." - Is this something we do, or are we better off using the planning consultant?

 "Fish for the amendments (which consultees have not replied yet?)" - I have not seen any request for amendments in any of the consultee responses.

"a couple of supporting neighbours" - chance would be a fine thing

[Alan Ambrose]

This is only my amateur's view (I'm an amateur at pretty much everything): 

 

>>> Is this something we do, or are we better off using the planning consultant?

 

Suggest going to planning meetings asap to get a feel for how they work. Contact your local councillor as ask for their support. If your councillor / case officer is at the next meeting, introduce yourself. My pref was to do this in a low key manner. The case officer then gave me an update (even though I didn't ask for one) and I thanked him for his work on the application. He also saw me talking to the councillor I just introduced myself to her (we had already exchanged a few emails) and said I wasn't going to bend her ear at that meeting :). I sent them both emails beforehand so to look out for me. There are some here on BH who espouse getting to grips with your local micro-politics. Say hello to the case officer's boss if they're there (they probably will be). Be charming :).

 

While I favour DIY for everything ... I'm thinking planning consultant / architect -  as they will stick to the planning issues and they already have a relationship with many decision makers in the room.

 

>>> I have not seen any request for amendments in any of the consultee responses.

 

Maybe this was just a stalling tactic, or maybe he's expecting some conditions from say, the ecology people, highways etc.

 

>>> chance would be a fine thing

 

Yeah, seems 99% are nimbys. They will probably either nominate one of their group to talk or if they're rich/influential find a consultant to talk for them. They may miss the point. One of the applications I watched, the locals made a big deal about access & deliveries - this is in a busy seaside market town. This was obviously their application-killer. Well good point, I thought. Case officer, piped up with 'yeah it's a problem anyway in the town, nothing new, and BTW the applicants already have access for deliveries anyway, so we can't take that away...'. Even better point! Objections blown away.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 5 by Alan Ambrose

[Daniel H]

Given there are issues in the objectors' emails that you can argue against I suggest you or your architect do a sweep of them and upload your own comments as a response to them. I wouldn't want misinformation to land with the planning officers.

 

Don't give up on some supportive comments - do you know anyone nearby who you can ask politely?

 

And you can often find past planning meetings online - our LPA posts everything on YouTube - so getting a flavour might be possible at home. But agree - turning up and pressing the flesh feels like the right thing. Suggest emailing the members of the committee ahead of the meeting with a summary of the proposal.

 

I understand that presenting to the committee yourself is the done thing, but make sure your planning consultant is on the drafting team! The policy should be dealt with by the planning officer, and I think some human story goes a long way in these places.

 

I also think your planning officer wants to pass the scheme, so do what they say and be seen to do so, and I think that will help a lot. 

 

(fyi, our scheme is in with the planners now and we're expecting to go to the planning committee in March)

[Bancroft]

One to keep in your back pocket, but have a look through any relevant previous planning applications from your immediate surrounding area and see what objections were made by the four now opposing yours.

 

That will allow you to see what they said and how they were countered.

 

It will also give you evidence of their Nimby-ness.

 

I wouldn't go in with this as your main argument but dropping into the conversation that your neighbours regularly oppose any sort of development in the area might just put that element of doubt about their arguments/validity into people's minds.

 

I researched a local councillor to us.  She opposed pretty much every application of any size seemingly on principle.  All except one which, interestingly, seemed to benefit her...

 

Luckily I didn't have to use this information but in some ways I wish the opportunity had arisen!

[flanagaj]

12 minutes ago, Daniel H said:

do a sweep of them and upload your own comments as a response to them.

The architect has address these points directly with the case office.  He has also raised why committee when the objections don't carry any weight, eg being sited too close to the road, when it sits in the same location as the previously granted application (which no one objected to) ...

Will the case officer upload our responses to the portal or is that something our architect can do?

[Daniel H]

@flanagaj - I would make sure your architect puts your responses on the portal to ensure it's there and doesn't drop off the side.

 

And sometimes a proposal will be pulled into the committee if there are a minimum number of comments that go against the judgement of the planning officer. 

[flanagaj]

16 hours ago, Daniel H said:

@flanagaj - I would make sure your architect puts your responses on the portal to ensure it's there and doesn't drop off the side.

 

And sometimes a proposal will be pulled into the committee if there are a minimum number of comments that go against the judgement of the planning officer. 

Ok.  Thanks.  We have had a total of 4 objections from neighbours, all of which are using a cookie cutter style template.   So not sure why it has been referred to committee.  I have also discovered that the sneaky buggers, have put the application back into consultation state.   Just feel that they are bidding for time now and the case officer who says she generally supports the proposal, does not want to approve for fear of ***** off the locals, hence the committee.

Point noted about the upload of the documents to the portal.

[flanagaj]

So our app was due to be decided on the 28th Feb and a few days before, the planning officer drops the architect an email saying that she need a revised Nutrient Assessment report and provides a query from Highways which was dated from them two weeks before.  So we have agreed to another 4 week extension.  Someone is not doing their job properly here and I cannot decide whether the LPA are biding for time or the architect is not managing the application very well.  Just seems strange that these requests for further information arrive a few days before the supposed decision is due.

[Big Jimbo]

Thats because the overworked / lazy, planning officers don't look at the application until the last minute . So having a query from highways Two weeks before that means nothing except that the planning officer is not doing a good job.

[Alan Ambrose]

Yeah agree. A very polite email to the case officer’s boss from the architect expressing ‘concern’, also to your councillor asking that they try to nudge it along. Essentially you need to get moved further up the LPA’s priority list.

[flanagaj]

4 hours ago, Alan Ambrose said:

Yeah agree. A very polite email to the case officer’s boss from the architect expressing ‘concern’, also to your councillor asking that they try to nudge it along. Essentially you need to get moved further up the LPA’s priority list.

I would not have an issue if we had been given some feedback, but to date we have just had "She has no objection to the principal of development".  Which doesn't tell us anything.

[EdHat]

Agreeing to extensions is not your only option and don't feel pressured to. My advice is if you don't think they should get one refuse and say you do not want to lose your right to appeal due to non-determination. Although, if they are waiting for information from you then you then it is more difficult as you don't want to give them a reason for refusal. 

 

I had an application that I initially agreed an extension for as the officer gave me feedback basically saying it would be refused, which gave me the opportunity to heavily revise plans without having to make another application. An extension was therefore justifiable. They were approving of the revised proposal but ultimately took 2 years to send it to the planning committee for a decision. They then asked for another extension to do the officer's report and I refused. Partly on principle, as had I agreed it would of gone on the records as being decided within the target time, which it clearly wasn't, and partly as I would loose my right to appeal due to non-determination. Refusing didn't cause any further delays.

 

In recent months I have had another application where the officer asked for an preliminary ecological assessment (PEA) a few days before the decision date. Which then caused delays. After I submitted a PEA report they asked for an extension. I refused, mostly because I was annoyed they'd asked for a PEA on a garden plot which was effectively a lawn and clearly didn't have any ecological value and also because I believe I'd loose my right to claim the fee back. I gave the reason as losing my right to appeal due to non-determination as I feel this puts pressure on them to keep the application at the top of their pile and make a decision. They decided it a few days after the end of the ecology consultation period.    

Edited March 2 by EdHat

[flanagaj]

Is it normal practice for case officers to delay consultee comments from being uploaded to the portal and subsequently sent to the architect for their attention?  I'd expect them to be forwarded on the day they come in, not nearly two weeks later.

[Temp]

2 hours ago, flanagaj said:

Is it normal practice for case officers to delay consultee comments from being uploaded to the portal and subsequently sent to the architect for their attention?  I'd expect them to be forwarded on the day they come in, not nearly two weeks later.

 

I think planning departments send documents out to a third party to be converted to pdf?

 

Earlier you mentioned there were objections. I would read them all looking for those that are valid planning objections. Most won't be. If there are any you can address by making simple changes perhaps consider doing so.

 

 

[flanagaj]

On 03/03/2025 at 22:54, Temp said:

 

I think planning departments send documents out to a third party to be converted to pdf?

 

Earlier you mentioned there were objections. I would read them all looking for those that are valid planning objections. Most won't be. If there are any you can address by making simple changes perhaps consider doing so.

 

 

It's a frustrating scenario not knowing whether the case officer is going to recommend approval or rejection, especially, when you are paying for an updated nutrient assessment report and submitting a revised request for nitrate credits form to the council selling credits.   All feels pointless if they are going to reject the proposal.   I'm trying to remain positive by saying that they wouldn't be requesting this information, but I suspect that is not the case and it's about ticking all the boxes regardless of whether they are planning on recommending to approve or reject the application.  It's going to committee even if they do recommend approval as a result of 4 letters of objection.

[Temp]

On 05/03/2025 at 21:25, flanagaj said:

It's a frustrating scenario not knowing whether the case officer is going to recommend approval or rejection, especially, when you are paying for an updated nutrient assessment report and submitting a revised request for nitrate credits form to the council selling credits.   All feels pointless if they are going to reject the proposal.   I'm trying to remain positive by saying that they wouldn't be requesting this information, but I suspect that is not the case and it's about ticking all the boxes regardless of whether they are planning on recommending to approve or reject the application.  It's going to committee even if they do recommend approval as a result of 4 letters of objection.

 

I can sympathise. We bought a plot that already had PP but it still took me a year to get PP for what we wanted.

 

At one point we submitted revised drawings and didn't hear anything for 4 weeks, then they told us the conservation officer had quit and we would have to wait until they hired a new one to get a response.

 

After a year messing us about we discovered a letter they had sent to a previous owner of the plot that said a house like the one we were proposing "might be better" than the approved design. When we produced that letter in a meeting there were red faces and bosses were called into the meeting. They gave in but still took another 8 weeks to issue the grant.

 

Actually building the house was easier than getting PP.

 

[LnP]

On 03/02/2025 at 19:38, flanagaj said:

 

"I have sent this to Biodiversity today but have to allow them a standard 2 week re-consultation window.

 

Are you claiming the self build exemption from having to demonstrate biodiversity net gain? If so, are the LA doing anything to prevent you from subsequently selling? My LA require us to sign a unilateral undertaking and will put a charge on the house to prevent us from selling in 3 years from completion.