oranjeboom Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 Now that almost 50t of rubble and soil have been excavated from the old bungalow I'm looking to get some further quotes in for UFH. Looking to DIY this with a plumber doing the final connections to boiler etc and helping me commission. I've had a 2-3 quotes in already but just want to cover all bases. This is who I have contacted so far: Wunda Nu-heat Continental (UFH1) Boulder Anyone obvious that I have missed or is worth trying? I've also contacted local plumbing supplier but I'm finding more and more that the locals prove to be more £££. I recall NickfromWales is always recommending someone, but I can't find my notes about whom that was now....Byron @ Boulder? Thanks! OB 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 Yup Boulder for me. Try UFH trade direct too. +44 1925 571999 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oranjeboom Posted June 14, 2016 Author Share Posted June 14, 2016 1 minute ago, Nickfromwales said: Yup Boulder for me. Try UFH trade direct too. +44 1925 571999 Thanks Nick - I'll say the Welshman's sent me! : ) and expect a massive reduction (being a stingey Dutchman...). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 Mention Nick from Swansea and the old and new forum names as I've already asked Byron to look after anyone I send from the forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 On face value I've found Wunda cheaper than Boulder - Circa £640 vs £560 for a 4 port with pipe, clips, manifold and pumps etc That is before any discussion on pricing taking the Welshmans name in vain.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Alphonsox Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 We used Wundatrade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney12 Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 I can't comment on the others but my experience with Nu-Heat has been VERY poor. A complete lack of understanding of fundamentals such as U-Values and SAP combined with extortionate pricing. Oh and once they've got your details you will be hounded by the sales team! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 +1 on Nu-Heat who wanted to sell me MVHR on top of UFH despite me saying I already had the kit. Planning system wasn't great either as loops were unequal (they wanted to know why I was worried about that...) and external French doors were missing ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC45 Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 Wunda were good for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oranjeboom Posted June 14, 2016 Author Share Posted June 14, 2016 7 hours ago, Barney12 said: I cant comment on the others but my experience with Nu-Heat has been VERY poor. A complete lack of understanding of fundamentals such as U-Values and SAP combined with extortionate pricing. Oh and once they've got your details you will be hounded by the sales team! Yes, they almost convinced me about their floor science too. Almost bought one on their retrofit systems (Lo-pro) for my uninstalled slab until I started reading up on here (well ebuild). Nu-heat have a very slick site, easy quoting layout and I can see how people just click'n'buy. Not against their product(s) but they seem keen to flog you something that will work but cost you the earth to run! And yes, Barney, the prices are sky-high (more than double what others are quoting me!). Even mentioning that NickfromWales is my best friend won't get me far with Nu-heat! I'm sure there is lots of bling bling that's not required in some of these quotes. Still waiting on some other quotes to come in. Will post them here for future reference and googlers. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 As above, I found Nu-Heat incompetent and Wunda very good. FWIW, the Wunda manifold, thermostatic valve and pump set that I bought happens to work very well for a low temperature UFH system, so if you're only looking for a low heat output, the thermostatic valve supplied with the Wunda pump set (this one: http://www.wundatrade.co.uk/manifolds-pump-stations/401-standard-pumpset-grundfos-eup-pump.html ) works OK down to about 24 deg C flow temperature. I tried to get a three port TMV on another system to work at a low temperature and even removing the stop found that it wouldn't regulate below about 28 deg C. This may be significant if, like us, you're using a low temperature slab approach. I can also verify that this pump set and thermostatic valve has no problem when pumping cold water through it to cool the floor, if anyone is thinking of floor cooling for solar gain reduction. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oranjeboom Posted June 15, 2016 Author Share Posted June 15, 2016 2 hours ago, JSHarris said: As above, I found Nu-Heat incompetent and Wunda very good. FWIW, the Wunda manifold, thermostatic valve and pump set that I bought happens to work very well for a low temperature UFH system, so if you're only looking for a low heat output, the thermostatic valve supplied with the Wunda pump set (this one: http://www.wundatrade.co.uk/manifolds-pump-stations/401-standard-pumpset-grundfos-eup-pump.html ) works OK down to about 24 deg C flow temperature. I tried to get a three port TMV on another system to work at a low temperature and even removing the stop found that it wouldn't regulate below about 28 deg C. This may be significant if, like us, you're using a low temperature slab approach. I can also verify that this pump set and thermostatic valve has no problem when pumping cold water through it to cool the floor, if anyone is thinking of floor cooling for solar gain reduction. Yes Jeremy, so far Wunda are one of the better priced ones I have received. I think they will beat like-for-like also, so will see what the cheapest one I get is like. Though it's more important that the hardware is sufficient and is easy enough to lay for a DIYer. To be honest, I have no idea how 'low I can go' with the temperatures. Most of the floors I am laying are in a 1950's bungalow (Cavity insulated, further 100mm EWI to follow, 3G passive windows, plenty of loft insulation). The floors will be 275mm EPS70 and I think that should give me a floor u-value of 0.038. The extension floors will be better than that. Lots of large south facing windows so I can use your concept of redistributing heat gain from that area elsewhere in the house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bitpipe Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 + 1 for Byron at Boulder. We sourced our UFH pipe from him and he's also doing the pump and manifold etc, also supports low temp mixing valve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oranjeboom Posted June 16, 2016 Author Share Posted June 16, 2016 Well, local merchants have just come back to me to say that PolyPipe will have to come for a site visit as they are unsure about tying the pipe to the mesh??? I guess their preference is to use their pipes with their panel system, screeded on top. Scared of the mesh rusting through into the pipework maybe? Not sure how that is going to happen if the mesh is entirely 'sealed off' from air and moisture?? Oh, and I can't use bamboo with them either. Even though there are numerous folk here whom have tied pipework to mesh and then concreted rather than screeded. As for the bamboo....well, a quick google would tell them that they are plenty of bamboo products out there. Think I will just play it safe and have no UFH at all. Since people walking on the floor may squish and break dem pipes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 I used the PolyPipe panels albeit with another brand of generic, (16mm) Pex-Al-Pex pipe. I just laid my A142 mesh on top. The panels go a long way to satisfying the neat freak in me. This was my FIRST time: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oranjeboom Posted June 16, 2016 Author Share Posted June 16, 2016 Hi Onoff, I think I copied your 20-pager topic from the 'other side' - taken up most of my usb stick! So you used both mesh and panels? Presume you used the mesh for extra structural support/strength? Ohhh....not sure whether using Polypipe panels with another GENERIC pipe is compatible...WHAT WERE YOU THINKING? Polypipe police are on their way... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 1 hour ago, oranjeboom said: Well, local merchants have just come back to me to say that PolyPipe will have to come for a site visit as they are unsure about tying the pipe to the mesh??? I guess there preference is to use their pipes with their panel system, screeded on top. Scared of the mesh rusting through into the pipework maybe? Not sure how that is going to happen if the mesh is entirely 'sealed off' from air and moisture?? Oh, and I can't use bamboo with them either. Even though there are numerous folk here whom have tied pipework to mesh and then concreted rather than screeded. As for the bamboo....well, a quick google would tell them that they are plenty of bamboo products out there. Think I will just play it safe and have no UFH at all. Since people walking on the floor may squish and break dem pipes. Good luck getting anyone from Polypipe to site other than a rep who wants to sell you the whole shebang ! I put Onoff onto the panels - I used them with Sp33dFit pipe (before I saw the light, don't judge me @Nickfromwales) and they were great. Made it very quick to lay the floor and easy to walk on. You end up needing slightly less concrete as the dimples take up some space. As to cable ties onto mesh, its been done for years and once encapsulated in concrete there is no way that mesh is rusting away..! Just go your own way and do what feels right... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 Local merchants ? Sound like schoolboys to me. Get the pipes zipped on, get the slab down, let it dry and bamboo til your eyes fall out. Simples. Peter, you're one away from build hub's first warning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 (edited) 1 hour ago, oranjeboom said: Hi Onoff, I think I copied your 20-pager topic from the 'other side' - taken up most of my usb stick! So you used both mesh and panels? Presume you used the mesh for extra structural support/strength? Ohhh....not sure whether using Polypipe panels with another GENERIC pipe is compatible...WHAT WERE YOU THINKING? Polypipe police are on their way... Fame at last! MyMemory are doing a 128GB USB 3.0 stick for about £23 if you wanted to get one and keep it handy for the rest of my stuff.....maybe get TWO http://www.mymemory.co.uk/USB-Flash-Drives/Kingston/Kingston-128GB-DataTraveler-SE9-G2-USB-3.0-Flash-Drive---100MB_s Yes both mesh AND panels. Jeremy I think mentioned the A142 mesh first which is what he used on his build. I think it just lessens the worry about the slab cracking. I've basically stolen ideas from everyone and had a go. Bear in mind when I joined eBuild I only knew PIR as "Passive Infra Red" any insulation NOT fluffy and on a roll was "Celotex".....even if it had Kingspan or Knauf written on it. I found it necessary to tape some of the panel joints where I'd overlapped by the bare minimum as I had no spare panels. Also when you overlap 2 or 3 where they meet it can get springy / "lifty". Yes, they clip together nicely but I can't believe its good enough a seal to stop some wet concrete slurry getting underneath. Dry screed probably a different matter. Did the best I could with tape and foam. Still kicking myself I forgot to add fibres to the concrete! Edited June 16, 2016 by Onoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 On the panels, I found cutting the corner off one where there was a 3 way connect was the best way to stop them lifting. Wunda now do the trays too - £4.50 each if you buy 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oranjeboom Posted June 16, 2016 Author Share Posted June 16, 2016 3 hours ago, PeterW said: Good luck getting anyone from Polypipe to site other than a rep who wants to sell you the whole shebang ! I put Onoff onto the panels - I used them with Sp33dFit pipe (before I saw the light, don't judge me @Nickfromwales) and they were great. Made it very quick to lay the floor and easy to walk on. You end up needing slightly less concrete as the dimples take up some space. As to cable ties onto mesh, its been done for years and once encapsulated in concrete there is no way that mesh is rusting away..! Just go your own way and do what feels right... I doubt their system would be any cheaper than the quotes I've got so far anyway. So won't be waiting for their 'engineers' to come out! 3 hours ago, Onoff said: Fame at last! Yes both mesh AND panels. Jeremy I think mentioned the A142 mesh first which is what he used on his build. I think it just lessens the worryy about the slab cracking. I found it necessary to tape some of the panel joints where I'd overlapped by the bare minimum as I had no spare panels. Also when you overlap 2 or 3 where they meet it can get springy / "lifty". Yes, they clip together nicely but I can't believe its good enough a seal to stop some wet concrete slurry getting underneath. Dry screed probably a different matter. Did the best I could with tape and foam. Still kicking myself I forgot to add fibres to the concrete! Better safe than sorry and for a small area like that a bit of mesh isn't going to cost that much. Only reason I am wanting to mesh it really is to lift the pipes off the insulation and closer to surface for a slightly quicker response time. And I guess the extra strength will help too. 3 hours ago, Nickfromwales said: Local merchants ? Sound like schoolboys to me. Well, I guess they just send the quote over to the manufacturers and then slap on their profit. But you would think if a client says he/she wants xyb instead of xyz, then they should just quote for xyb. I thought the customer is always correct? Had a similar response when I spoke to a window installer the other day about fixing my windows within the EWI layer using brackets - "Oh, well I wouldn't do it like that if they were my windows....". Just because he's been doing it his way for 30yrs there obviously is no evolution in how windows can be fitted properly. A right smug, opinionated git he was too. I may just use him to prove it can all be done though! I digress.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 (edited) 4 minutes ago, oranjeboom said: Only reason I am wanting to mesh it really is to lift the pipes off the insulation and closer to surface for a slightly quicker response time. And I guess the extra strength will help too. One of my reasons that. Plus I was losing the slab where the bath is sunk. That and that I'll be doing the wet room corner later. It's busy here today, is a certain Welsh plumber waiting along with everyone else for a football match to start? Edited June 16, 2016 by Onoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 1 minute ago, oranjeboom said: Had a similar response when I spoke to a window installer the other day about fixing my windows within the EWI layer using brackets - "Oh, well I wouldn't do it like that if they were my windows....". Just because he's been doing it his way for 30yrs there obviously is no evolution in how windows can be fitted properly. I spoke to one of our potential suppliers (uPVC... but that's due to planning atm) and they said they didn't recommend using brackets on their windows and that they should be fixed using screws direct into the brick. I plan to look at both so I may put "skewed" screws through the frame into the brick but also support back into the blockwork with brackets. A lot of it is how the volume providers do their stuff is not best practice, just standard practice... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 2 hours ago, Onoff said: One of my reasons that. Plus I was losing the slab where the bath is sunk. That and that I'll be doing the wet room corner later. It's busy here today, is a certain Welsh plumber waiting along with everyone else for a football match to start? Not a football loving bone in my body. I'd rather peel my eyes with a potato peeler. Just fitted a bunch of toilets and urinals in a pub refurb and now off to second fix a kitchen. "Show me the money" 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oranjeboom Posted June 16, 2016 Author Share Posted June 16, 2016 Bloody nice goal!! Hope you're busy peeling Nick!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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