Timber Frame with no blockwork - any downsides?

[North Coast Self Builder]

Hi there,

 

I'm being steered by my architect (and to save a bit of time and cost) into going for a timber frame house, no blockwork, just caldding.

Coastal location. North Coast of Ireland. Fairly modern design.

I did a house a few years back with timber frame and a blockwork shell on outside. I was very pleased with it - super warm. 

How common is this nowdays? Any downsides?

I am slightly worried about noise and just a general feeling of 'sturdyness'

Would love to hear experiences of this type of build.

 

A. 

 

 

[Russell griffiths]

Some lenders don’t like the idea. 
will you need a mortgage, or if you ever sell it. 

[SuperJohnG]

I've a SIPS house with renderboard (Knauff Aquapanel) and K rend TC15 finish. Lovely walls with no expansion beads or unsightly breathers. 20m run on 1 wall...looks mega. 

 

Zero brickwork.

 

Noise is a zero issue. Feels solid always, there was a very slight vibration when we had an Uber storm (90+mph winds) but that's all I'd say. You probably wouldn't have that in a block work house.

 

We had no issues with getting a lender, we are with Barclays and house insurance and structural warranty no issue.

 

SIPS is stiffer than purely timber framed so that may be less solid but I'm not sure.

 

Self_build_ayrshire on Instagram if you want a look. 

 

 

[saveasteading]

25 minutes ago, SuperJohnG said:

may be less solid but I'm not sure.

Note how the snow has not melted anywhere on the roof. A very good proof of continuous and effective insulation and airtightness.

Or that the heating is set low or off.

[G and J]

13 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

Or that the heating is set low or off.

Maybe they spent so much on the build they can’t afford heating lol

 

Being serious our design started timber frame and no masonry skin.  We did a good few hours research and concluded that at least a partial masonry outer skin increased the number of normal mortgage lenders (and we think house insurers) which would accept our house, and more importantly for us a significantly greater number of lifetime mortgage companies which would accept our house.  We changed our design to just over 50% rendered block as a result. 
 

We will never know whether it would have caused us issues….

[Bramco]

We had no issues with our mainly corrugated metal roof and cladding timber frame. Also partly timber and render clad. Although we didn't need a mortgage for the build or now.

 

Our insurers weren't interested but put us on to Gallaghers who found an underwriter for us. Bit more expensive but not much.

 

Timber frame is great for getting the frame up, windows in and watertight. If we ever built again we'd go this route.

 

 

[TommoUK]

There’s a lot more focus on cladding post Grenfell. That’s not to say you won’t find insurance cover or a mortgage.  From a resale perspective if an insurer or mortgage company declines a buyers application it may result in delays (whilst questions are asked about the cladding spec) or give buyer a reason to pull out. That’s potential cost/time/hassle down the line which may or may not be a consideration for you.

 

Probably not massive cost difference between block & render v batter/carrier board /silicone render v batten/ cedral cladding? 
 

 

[JohnMo]

13 minutes ago, TommoUK said:

There’s a lot more focus on cladding post Grenfell. That’s not to say you won’t find insurance cover or a mortgage.  From a resale perspective if an insurer or mortgage company declines a buyers application it may result in delays (whilst questions are asked about the cladding spec) or give buyer a reason to pull out. That’s potential cost/time/hassle down the line which may or may not be a consideration for you.

 

Probably not massive cost difference between block & render v batter/carrier board /silicone render v batten/ cedral cladding? 
 

 

Good observation if building a block of flats. But really that the same thing on a 1 or 2 storey building.

 

Different fire spread mechanisms at play, due the heights being different.

[saveasteading]

27 minutes ago, TommoUK said:

There’s a lot more focus on cladding post Grenfell

We should blame kingspan and celotex. I try not to use any brands of their holding companies but it is difficult esp when they change names and sell off the tarnished brands.

They appear to have escaped largely unpunished. White collar crime is accepted.

[-rick-]

Living in a flat affected by cladding issues (which we hope will be solved for us soon), I personally don't want to go near anything even slightly questionable on my next property. I know 2 storey buildings are in theory much different, but we've seen repeated tightening of rules and from what we've seen mortgage companies and insurers have become extremely risk adverse over issues related to fire. We will soon be in a place where according to the fire safety rules our building is fine, but the insurers continue to feel its too high a risk for normal insurance so we are stuck paying exhortionate rates.

 

Even if you assume because it's two storey the fire rules won't really apply, I think the general impact on the industry is just more risk aversion and along with trending higher costs due to climate related damage and a record of shoddy construction in this country. If insurers/mortgagers are on the fench with something now the safe option is to assume they will get more risk adverse in future.

 

[Iceverge]

12 hours ago, North Coast Self Builder said:

Hi there,

 

I'm being steered by my architect (and to save a bit of time and cost) into going for a timber frame house, no blockwork, just caldding.

Coastal location. North Coast of Ireland. Fairly modern design.

I did a house a few years back with timber frame and a blockwork shell on outside. I was very pleased with it - super warm. 

How common is this nowdays? Any downsides?

I am slightly worried about noise and just a general feeling of 'sturdyness'

Would love to hear experiences of this type of build.

 

A. 

 

 

 

Most of North American houses are built this way. 

 

It's nice and clean and most can be done by carpenters which cuts down your spread of contractors. 

 

Blocks however are quite cheap and can take sand+cement render which lasts an era. Some on an unpainted Westerly facing farm building here is in excellent condition after 70 years with zero maintenance. 

 

I don't know the projected lifespans of synthetic renders. 

[saveasteading]

1 hour ago, -rick- said:

general impact on the industry is just more risk aversion 

I have seen this cycle of insurance  panic a few times over the years.

Sometimes quite rightly. Other times without properly investigating the issues.

Then one breaks ranks and gets lots of business and the others follow.

Hence timber construction is a no-no to some, and metal cadding.

 

Looking back decades, industrial buildings had polystyrene exposed as roof insulation, cavity barriers were rare and some so-called fire walls had not been tested.

It's safer now, if designed properly without corner cutting.

 

What we can never count on is the average builder knowing the rules, or understanding,  or caring. Unfortunately this also applies to some consultants.

 

[saveasteading]

13 hours ago, North Coast Self Builder said:

timber frame house, no blockwork, just caldding.

That's fine if detailed properly. Insurance may cost more, but you will have saved tens of £k in the build and the insurers will catch up.

[SuperJohnG]

13 hours ago, saveasteading said:

Note how the snow has not melted anywhere on the roof. A very good proof of continuous and effective insulation and airtightness.

Or that the heating is set low or off.

We've 220mm thick roof panels with 50mm PIR internally. Plus most of that building is vaulted it works very well. One regret is that the steel portal frame is badly designed and causes a bridge but hindsight is a wonderful thing.

[TommoUK]

5 hours ago, JohnMo said:

Good observation if building a block of flats. But really that the same thing on a 1 or 2 storey building.

 

Different fire spread mechanisms at play, due the heights being 

I guess my point was to weigh up the perceived risk / fear factor and the effect that may have on an onward sale with the savings. If it's your forever home and you plan to DIY the cladding then it may be less of an issue.

[North Coast Self Builder]

On 02/12/2024 at 21:40, Russell griffiths said:

Some lenders don’t like the idea. 
will you need a mortgage, or if you ever sell it. 

good to know. will check.

[North Coast Self Builder]

On 02/12/2024 at 22:34, SuperJohnG said:

I've a SIPS house with renderboard (Knauff Aquapanel) and K rend TC15 finish. Lovely walls with no expansion beads or unsightly breathers. 20m run on 1 wall...looks mega. 

 

Zero brickwork.

 

Noise is a zero issue. Feels solid always, there was a very slight vibration when we had an Uber storm (90+mph winds) but that's all I'd say. You probably wouldn't have that in a block work house.

 

We had no issues with getting a lender, we are with Barclays and house insurance and structural warranty no issue.

 

SIPS is stiffer than purely timber framed so that may be less solid but I'm not sure.

 

Self_build_ayrshire on Instagram if you want a look. 

 

 

Thanks SuperJohnG. That's a really helpful and reassuring post. Your climate in Ayrshire will be almost identical to ours 20 miles away across the sea.

[North Coast Self Builder]

On 03/12/2024 at 09:57, saveasteading said:

I have seen this cycle of insurance  panic a few times over the years.

Sometimes quite rightly. Other times without properly investigating the issues.

Then one breaks ranks and gets lots of business and the others follow.

Hence timber construction is a no-no to some, and metal cadding.

 

Looking back decades, industrial buildings had polystyrene exposed as roof insulation, cavity barriers were rare and some so-called fire walls had not been tested.

It's safer now, if designed properly without corner cutting.

 

What we can never count on is the average builder knowing the rules, or understanding,  or caring. Unfortunately this also applies to some consultants.

 

The insurance issue would be a concern. We had a Trocal roof on previous house and and an extremely limited choice of insurers. Ended up paying £700 more a year. We have included Trocal again on this one so now am a bit worried about getting insurance.

[North Coast Self Builder]

On 02/12/2024 at 23:20, G and J said:

Maybe they spent so much on the build they can’t afford heating lol

 

Being serious our design started timber frame and no masonry skin.  We did a good few hours research and concluded that at least a partial masonry outer skin increased the number of normal mortgage lenders (and we think house insurers) which would accept our house, and more importantly for us a significantly greater number of lifetime mortgage companies which would accept our house.  We changed our design to just over 50% rendered block as a result. 
 

We will never know whether it would have caused us issues….

what's the difference between a normal mortgage and a lifetime mortgage?

[G and J]

9 minutes ago, North Coast Self Builder said:

what's the difference between a normal mortgage and a lifetime mortgage?

A lifetime mortgage is for us wrinklies.   No monthly repayments, interest charges roll up and it’s only repaid when the property is sold on death of the last surviving mortgagee (or them going into care).

 

A fab way of funding growing old disgracefully if one doesn’t care how much of a financial legacy one leaves behind.

[North Coast Self Builder]

40 minutes ago, G and J said:

A lifetime mortgage is for us wrinklies.   No monthly repayments, interest charges roll up and it’s only repaid when the property is sold on death of the last surviving mortgagee (or them going into care).

 

A fab way of funding growing old disgracefully if one doesn’t care how much of a financial legacy one leaves behind.

 

40 minutes ago, G and J said:

A lifetime mortgage is for us wrinklies.   No monthly repayments, interest charges roll up and it’s only repaid when the property is sold on death of the last surviving mortgagee (or them going into care).

 

A fab way of funding growing old disgracefully if one doesn’t care how much of a financial legacy one leaves behind.

Ah. Thanks. Good to know. I am on the cusp of needing same!