Self build on Orkney

[westbound]

Hi all,

My wife and I are in the early stages of setting up a self-build home in Orkney.

We don't have any construction experience, and am extremely glad to have found Build Hub - browsing around has shown how much experience and advice there is on here! In particular, I've been reading @Stones' blog and @MarcelHoldinga's updates on their similar projects with a great amount of interest.

We're a couple with a young child, and our self-build ambitions come from a place of hoping to make a safe and comfortable haven for our daughter as she grows up. We have family in Orkney, and the friendliness of the local community was ultimately what made us want to make the leap - we've been searching for a stronger sense of community since the difficult COVID years.

We've got a plot of land and are beginning the planning permission process. The intent is to build an efficient and open-plan ICF property on one of the North Isles.

 

Happy to be here, glad there's such a rich source of info on self-building!

[Iceverge]

Welcome to the forum, I hope it'll be helpful. 

 

Do you have planning permission or are you just at the concept stage? In any case we'd love to see some sketches. 

 

ICF has plenty of advantages but also some drawbacks. What's pulling you towards this method of construction?

 

 

 

 

[Russell griffiths]

8 hours ago, Iceverge said:

Welcome to the forum, I hope it'll be helpful. 

 

Do you have planning permission or are you just at the concept stage? In any case we'd love to see some sketches. 

 

ICF has plenty of advantages but also some drawbacks. What's pulling you towards this method of construction?

 

 

 

 

What would you list as its drawbacks. 

[Jenki]

2 hours ago, Russell griffiths said:

What would you list as its drawbacks. 

Having built ICF on the North coast I'd only consider the lack / difficulty/ cost , of 'pumping' concrete. Everything else is positive especially for a DIY self build. I didn't pump the concrete for the aforementioned reasons and just used a 360 machine and home made hoppers.

Transport of the chosen ICF system will also be expensive.

Edited November 24 by Jenki
Typo

[ProDave]

Being "offshore" i.e. not even on Orkney mainland, I would first research concrete deliveries.  Everything for your build will not only have to get to Orkney mainland (choice of 3 large ferries) but will then have to get to the outer isle on the much smaller inter island ferries.  Given the ferry schedules and some of them take a while I wonder how you would get bulk concrete there?

 

I would want to know the answer to that before deciding to use ICF which needs a lot of concrete, vs say timber frame which would be much easier to get the component parts delivered.

 

I think a LOT of you decisions will be guided by what can be delivered to your island at sensible cost, e.g. I remember @Stones saying his choice of treatment plant boiled down to the only one he could get delivered, and that was to Mainland Orkney.

[westbound]

@Iceverge We're currently at concept stage. I have some sketches (which I'll post shortly), and I currently want to verify that they're within our budget before driving the planning permission mission, because the footprint is probably too expensive (being realistic, our concept is too ambitious...we're willing to compromise down). That's something I'm hoping a few of the experts can help with here - I'm an engineer who has pulled some drawings together, but I'm struggling to get hold of a surveyor to validate them/help estimating the cost.

 

On thinking ICF: Mostly the airtightness/thermal mass features, but also the ridiculous notion of building something solid out of concrete to last as weather gets more extreme. We started scoping this out as we watched a lot of timber kit houses get blown away by the recent hurricane in the States, and I'm sure that's had an influence! I've had a chat with a local builder who specialises in ICF, and he didn't seem too concerned about getting the ICF structure up and running. @Jenki @ProDave I raised the issue about getting sufficient concrete, and he said they typically just resort to mixers on site and do it by hand. His biggest concern was the additional cost of having a team stay out at an island for a few days (both the financial cost, but also the personal cost to the team). If it ends up being too much, timber frame isn't out of the question.

[westbound]

12 hours ago, Iceverge said:

In any case we'd love to see some sketches. 

 

Concept sketches here.

[SteamyTea]

4 hours ago, ProDave said:

Given the ferry schedules and some of them take a while I wonder how you would get bulk concrete there?

Easy.

 

 

[Iceverge]

11 hours ago, Russell griffiths said:

What would you list as its drawbacks.

 

When I priced it 6 years ago it was very expensive. More than double the cost of a wide cavity wall. 

 

It requires a hire of specialised bracing. 

 

It needs to be externally clad or rendered like EWI. Synthetic renders were 3 times the price of sand/cement when I looked.amd I wouldn't consider them as durable as sand and cement over blocks in a wet location.

 

You typically need a concrete skip and crane/excavator or a concrete pump on site to pour the walls. 

 

Off the shelf ICF blocks are often just about there regarding U values and often need additional insulation. 

 

Lots of steel is needed for the walls. 

 

As the ICF blocks are a specialised material the option of just popping to a local merchant for an extra one isn't there. More if a problem if you live in a more remote area. 

 

 

To be balanced I did say there were advantages. 

 

Good airtighess. 

Excellent thermal bridging. 

Quick in the right hands. 

Very strong. 

Somewhat diy-able

Can work well for awkward shapes. 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 24 by Iceverge

[Iceverge]

8 hours ago, westbound said:

@Iceverge We're currently at concept stage. I have some sketches (which I'll post shortly), and I currently want to verify that they're within our budget before driving the planning permission mission, because the footprint is probably too expensive (being realistic, our concept is too ambitious...we're willing to compromise down). That's something I'm hoping a few of the experts can help with here - I'm an engineer who has pulled some drawings together, but I'm struggling to get hold of a surveyor to validate them/help estimating the cost.

 

On thinking ICF: Mostly the airtightness/thermal mass features, but also the ridiculous notion of building something solid out of concrete to last as weather gets more extreme. We started scoping this out as we watched a lot of timber kit houses get blown away by the recent hurricane in the States, and I'm sure that's had an influence! I've had a chat with a local builder who specialises in ICF, and he didn't seem too concerned about getting the ICF structure up and running. @Jenki @ProDave I raised the issue about getting sufficient concrete, and he said they typically just resort to mixers on site and do it by hand. His biggest concern was the additional cost of having a team stay out at an island for a few days (both the financial cost, but also the personal cost to the team). If it ends up being too much, timber frame isn't out of the question.

 

Timber frame spans a whole plethora of abilities. 

 

In the states they often build with single "4*2"s at 16" oc and cardboard sheathing. Literally cardboard is stopping the walls from collapsing like a house of cards.  Then they nail vinyl siding straight onto that and asphalt shingles onto the roof deck. 

 

Couple it to some absolute basement level Home Depot vinyl sliding single pane windows and you truly have a pile of junk. 

 

Compare it to a timber frame of 225*45mm timbers with 11mm OSB racking, proper airtight detailing, a battened services cavity, blown cellulose insulation and a proper ventilated rainscreen and it's a million miles away. 

 

 

Would you consider concrete blocks for the house, that's what we did. There was concrete trucks needed for the foundations and the floor but that can be minimised without too much trouble. 

Edited November 24 by Iceverge

[Stones]

The main challenge on the outer isles is getting a contractor, as they are generally busy so are in a position to pick and choose, and new builds certainly preferred to large scale.  Two contractors work with ICF here.  In addition as has been indicated, additional costs in terms of getting materials to the Isles, and worker accommodation costs, albeit these are offset to an extent by lower plot prices. Getting material delivered can be challenging.  As @ProDave mentioned, my choice of treatment plant was ultimately decided on the grounds of delivery.  You will probably find that you have to organise onward shipping from Aberdeen for many things - easy enough to arrange as there are various firms who do it, it's just another cost.

 

Planning wise, its a very relaxed regime for the outer isles.

 

@westbound are you already living in Orkney?

[westbound]

1 hour ago, Stones said:

 

@westbound are you already living in Orkney?

 

Not yet, family based there, moving out to join them. Rough plan of attack for us is get the planning permission and design work done, sell up our south-east house and rent in Kirkwall for the duration of the build (I'm aware of rental challenges). Could potentially stay with family if cash flow requires it, but some advantages to being in Kirkwall during the temporary phase.