Old Septic tank - possibly needs replacing

[Kuro507]

We are in the process of purchasing a new home, its a relatively new (22 years old) timber frame house, however the septic tank predates it and was originaly for the old bungalow that used to be there. (Could easily be back from the 1950's)

 

The septic tank is due to be emptied early October and then a specialist will survey and asses it the following day. 

Its located in the corner of the garden and the soakaway/drainage field is into the neighbouring field (nearest house at least 500m away). The title deeds provide rights to maintain the soakaway, as necessary. This is the last significant query on the purchase, so has the potential to hold things up. We are keen to try and get the purchase completed before end of October, to avoid any nasty suprises in the new Labour budget!

 

Whats the likelyhood its going to be deemed unfit to meet the General Binding Regulations?

 

If it doesn't, what sort of cost would we be looking at to have a new waste treatment plant installed instead? (3 bedroom house, 4 of us living there, 2 bathrooms and 1 WC)

Any recommendations on type or manufacturer of treatment systems?

Is there much maintenance required?

How big are these systems and are they in-ground or do we need somewhere to site it?

 

Thanks in advanced for thoughts on this.

 

[Conor]

Can't comment on price, but assume it needs to be replaced and negotiate a reduction in the purchase price accordingly. This topic comes up all the time, try a search.

[Timedout]

If the septic is in good order and not leaching out and the soak away is functioning you will probably be OK. Septics must discharge into a drainage field and not any form of ditch or waterway. The rules you have to follow are the General Binding Rules set out by the Environment  Agency. 
If the septic is an old brick one then it is likely it may be leaching out. They don’t last forever.

Drainage fields (soak away) do not last for ever either. They clog with fine silt especially if the septic has not been desludged regularly. If this property has been owned by anyone from or remotely connected to the farming community then it will not have been maintained or desludged correctly. They are all determined that septic tanks work by magic and need no maintenance. 
 

if you need a new system buy an aeration system that does not have the blower unit mounted in the lid. Do not buy any form of rotating contactor disc or recirculating sludge system. They are crap. You will also need a new drainage field . Budget on £15,000+VAT for the lot, it won’t be much less based on an enquiry I made last year.

 

I have done a couple myself but they were both over 20years ago and on new build and I can’t recall what the overall cost was. One cost a lot more because of the ground water conditions. One had very benign conditions. 

 

[nod]

I’ve a good friend who replaces several tanks per month He seems to be around 10k plus vat per tank and additional for upgrading drainage field 

[ToughButterCup]

2 hours ago, Kuro507 said:

...

Whats the likelyhood its going to be deemed unfit to meet the General Binding Regulations?

...

 

At this remove, other than offer generalisations,  we can't help.  I'd plan on removing the tank and replacing it with a treatment plant.  Either now or at some point in the future . DIY  about £6k, otherwise £10k. Choose the system with the least moving parts. That type uses an air blower(s). 

[Kuro507]

2 hours ago, nod said:

I’ve a good friend who replaces several tanks per month He seems to be around 10k plus vat per tank and additional for upgrading drainage field 

He's still fitting new septic tanks, rather than waste treatment plants?

[Kuro507]

4 hours ago, Conor said:

Can't comment on price, but assume it needs to be replaced and negotiate a reduction in the purchase price accordingly. This topic comes up all the time, try a search.

I have insisted the Vendor get the survey done, I found a local expert that they have appointed.

 

If something needs doing, of course its part of a negotiation. The obligation is on the seller to ensure its fit for purpose, or negotiate something with the buyer. Worst case we can meet in the middle, idealy not as generous as that. We are getting the house for a sensible price, but it was based on the assumption of no significant issues being found. 

[nod]

6 hours ago, nod said:

I’ve a good friend who replaces several tanks per month He seems to be around 10k plus vat per tank and additional for upgrading drainage field 

I’ve fitted matrix on the last two 

But any that don’t have moving parts are fine 

[Kuro507]

Morning all, the Septic tank at the house we are purchasing was emptied last week, then inspected, including a camera down the sewage pipe from the house.

Unfortunately the report does not make happy reading, 

• Existing brick built septic tank thought to be circa 1950/60's
• The tank shows no sign of anaerobic activity, the bacteria that breakdown the sewage, so is not compliant (House has been empty for 12 months though)
• The discharge from the septic tank, into the soakaway in the adjoining field, has no documentation on its design or soil suitability tests, so cannot be assessed as compliant.  From what I have read online, it shouldn't be a soakaway, but a drainage field to meet current regulations. Digging up the land to examine it, is likely as much work as replacing it
• The sewage pipe from the house is blocked, so the system should not be used. I doubt its fully blocked as sewage would have backed up into the house, either its been letting some through, or perhaps a tree root has come through the pipe wall, or similar.

Recommendation is to decomission the existing tank, install a new waste treatment plant and then a full new drainage field.

Its a 4 bedroom. 3 bathroom house. The quote for the work (Devon), including Building control fees is just over £19k inc VAT.

Soil percolation test required separately.

 

Its a steep learning curve this week for me, getting my head around this.

 

My first priorty feels like it should be getting the percolation test done before we exchange contracts and are commited. If this came back showing the land was unusable, the house is worthless.

As the existing soakaway in in the neighbouring farmers field (with permission in the deeds to maintain and replace it), I have emailed the landowner to let him know about it.

 

Any advice on makes of sewage treatment plant we should be looking at?

 

Is there any benefit spending a little more on the next size up system? any disadvantage doing this?

 

Reliability, low maintenance and running costs are a priorioty, spending a little more now on a better tank seems sensible - especialy as the biggest cost by far, is installation and the drainage field. 

 

Thanks in advance for suggestions and advice  

[ToughButterCup]

In haste.... Read up on the General Binding Rules 

 

[Russell griffiths]

That’s a fairly good argument for a reduction in price. 

[crooksey]

Just so you know (in England) this is still technically legal. As long as its not discharging to a watercourse, do not let people in this industry scare you.

 

I have seen tanks from 100 years ago still in use, someone cleaned it out, re-pointed it and added an air blower on a timer.

 

If it was me, I would negotiate the price to reflect this. But in reality, you could move in, have the pipe from the house jetted and re-lined, jet the tank and probably be fine until you get round to installing the new system. With a healthy dose of muck munchers once a month.

[ToughButterCup]

Potentially, you've got £5000 + worth of expense: tank £3k, drainage field £2k, piping and laying (?+). That said, the report cited above isn't that bad.

Essentially it says " Ask me to come back when you've cleared the blockage - and get me to suggest a drainage field, and - if someone had recently pooped in this system, I'd be able to tell you more. "

Beware of charlatans in this sector.

 

Tank: anything with as few moving parts as possible - an air-blower will do (and does for many of us). Loads of other posts about the issue on BH.

Size:  the tank size rules are based on what a house can accommodate, as opposed to what you actually need. 

The soak-away (drainage field) - might need moving to a different site. I'm sucking my teeth here hoping thats not necessary. 

 

[Kuro507]

2 hours ago, ToughButterCup said:

In haste.... Read up on the General Binding Rules 

 

I have, thanks.

This is why I insisted it was inspected ahead of exchange of contracts.

[Kuro507]

2 hours ago, Russell griffiths said:

That’s a fairly good argument for a reduction in price. 

Indeed it was, it has been accordingly reduced.

 

Which now makes it our responsibility to fix 🤣

 

Hence I have a lot of questions, and a steep learning curve   

[Kuro507]

34 minutes ago, ToughButterCup said:

Potentially, you've got £5000 + worth of expense: tank £3k, drainage field £2k, piping and laying (?+). That said, the report cited above isn't that bad.

Essentially it says " Ask me to come back when you've cleared the blockage - and get me to suggest a drainage field, and - if someone had recently pooped in this system, I'd be able to tell you more. "

Beware of charlatans in this sector.

 

Tank: anything with as few moving parts as possible - an air-blower will do (and does for many of us). Loads of other posts about the issue on BH.

Size:  the tank size rules are based on what a house can accommodate, as opposed to what you actually need. 

The soak-away (drainage field) - might need moving to a different site. I'm sucking my teeth here hoping thats not necessary. 

 

 

Absolutely aware of not just charlatans, but also those who know they have you over a barrel as it has to be fixed, almost regardless of cost!

 

In fairness, when ringing around to find somebody with availability to conduct the percolation tests, the same recommendation for the local sewage 'god' kept coming up. Which is the Guy that did the inspection for us.

 

I need to percolation test done, to verify that a new drainage field is possible, before I am prepared to allow exchange of contracts.

 

In reality, the old soakaway was likely to have just been a pipe buried in the field. Especialy some 70+ years ago.

Putting in a new drainage field is going to make a mess, but it will soon grow back and be invisible in a large field. Just have to take care of any tractors driving over it, or over the feed-in pipe while cutting the hedge.

 

 

Any particular brands, or models of tank to prefer, or avoid?

 

 

[ToughButterCup]

10 minutes ago, Kuro507 said:

...

Any particular brands, or models of tank to prefer, or avoid? ...

 

This is what we use: I don't know the market well enough to recommend or warn about anything else. But if you stick to the - fewest possible moving parts - rule  you won't go far wrong.

Please do your Due Diligence - many others here have different systems and find them excellent. 

 

13 minutes ago, Kuro507 said:

.... Just have to take care of any tractors driving over it, or over the feed-in pipe while cutting the hedge. ...

 

Protect the pipe by putting  a (couple of?)  concrete window lintels (£20) over the pipe where the tractor is like to chug. But unless the pipe is very shallow at that point, I should think (guess) you won't need to worry. 900mm will do I think. The farmer will not want to over-compact the field.

[ToughButterCup]

19 minutes ago, Kuro507 said:

... I need to percolation test done, to verify that a new drainage field is possible, before I am prepared to allow exchange of contracts....

 

Properly done, thats expensive - £1.5 to 2k . Ask to see other 'Perc' Test reports - here's why- enjoy it

2 men one machine 2 days, written report.

[Kuro507]

12 minutes ago, ToughButterCup said:

 

This is what we use: I don't know the market well enough to recommend or warn about anything else. But if you stick to the - fewest possible moving parts - rule  you won't go far wrong.

Please do your Due Diligence - many others here have different systems and find them excellent. 

 

 

Protect the pipe by putting  a (couple of?)  concrete window lintels (£20) over the pipe where the tractor is like to chug. But unless the pipe is very shallow at that point, I should think (guess) you won't need to worry. 900mm will do I think. The farmer will not want to over-compact the field.

I had exactly the same idea, a few prestressed concrete lintels are cheap enough.

[Kuro507]

6 minutes ago, ToughButterCup said:

 

Properly done, thats expensive - £1.5 to 2k . Ask to see other 'Perc' Test reports - here's why- enjoy it

2 men one machine 2 days, written report.

 

Indeed, I have had 2 quotes which are both around £1,500. Meeting one of them on site tomorrow to discuss it, with a view of getting it done early next week.

[saveasteading]

2 hours ago, crooksey said:

Just so you know (in England) this is still technically legal

As @crooksey says.

I have such a system. When we bought the property we assumed we would put in a treatment tank but never did.

It blocked once, so had it emptied but the crucial thing was sucking out the outfall pipe.

I went in the pit and saw that it could do with repair BUT then realised it is leaking and filtering at the same time.

Also saw that the in and out T shape pipes ( to below the surface) were broken so sorted them.

 

I needed building regs. A letter from thd owner confirming long yerm use satisfied them. The drainage company demanded a replacement and also went away meekly after being reminded of thd rules.

In summary...plan to replace it but get a letter from the vendor to confirm hos long it has been there.

 

Do not oversize the treatment tank. They work just fine at maximum use and very comfortably on lower use.

As above....Air bubbles is better and cheaper than mechanical. I specify Marsh....others look OK too.

[Susie]

Check the deeds.

The deeds for the houses around me are a little complicated at times as the main farm has been split up and sold off. 
The end result is that what was once a field is now a garden (mine), our neighbors have a soak away into our garden.  This does not bother me at all as we have plenty of land but the deeds state the right to use our land as soak away for 50 years which expires soon.  I’m not sure they are aware as it’s in the original deeds before the split. When useage expires they may be lucky as my build might give them access to mains sewage cheaper than a replacement tank. 
 

[Kuro507]

41 minutes ago, Susie said:

Check the deeds.

The deeds for the houses around me are a little complicated at times as the main farm has been split up and sold off. 
The end result is that what was once a field is now a garden (mine), our neighbors have a soak away into our garden.  This does not bother me at all as we have plenty of land but the deeds state the right to use our land as soak away for 50 years which expires soon.  I’m not sure they are aware as it’s in the original deeds before the split. When useage expires they may be lucky as my build might give them access to mains sewage cheaper than a replacement tank. 
 

Thanks

Deeds contain a covenant that grants the property owner the right to inspect, maintain and if necessary replace the drainage field, giving 24hrs notice.

i have emailed the landowner and his manager about it, not had a response yet.

also made sure our Solicitor is aware of it all.

there is no expiry in the deeds.

[ToughButterCup]

7 hours ago, Kuro507 said:

... with a view of getting it done early next week.

 

Can I have some of whatever you're having please? Optimism cake. 

[Kuro507]

9 minutes ago, ToughButterCup said:

 

Can I have some of whatever you're having please? Optimism cake. 

Thanks lol

im meeting a surveyor on site tomorrow to agree what he would want o to do, then book it in for next week.

 

we are probably going to dig some test pits in the garden, as well as the field so we have information on both areas.