scottishjohn Posted August 30 Share Posted August 30 Iknow i,m getting old and weak . but has anybody got a good trick for fitting bends using the seals I cannot gte enough push to make them go in striaght joiners --no problem but the bends are a tighter fit and just will not go inwith seals fitted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted August 30 Share Posted August 30 Silicone lubricant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Ambrose Posted August 30 Share Posted August 30 They also sell some special lubricant although I'd be tempted to use washing up liquid otherwise. Can you twist them in by rotating on the axis of the installed pipe? It can get pretty messy when you're down a muddy hole wrestling pipe 😄. I know it's easy to say 'ensure the pipe & seal area is clean' but any mud, grit etc will increase the friction by loads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuerteStu Posted August 30 Share Posted August 30 I saw an old ground worker put a couple of ribbons of duck tape a foot back from the end to give something to grip on. Seems like a really simple and easy trick that must do wonders. He put it on before getting down in the dusty trench though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottishjohn Posted August 30 Author Share Posted August 30 (edited) tried all those things -- just too much pressure required to compress the seals to make them go in even just fitting the bend direct to pipe are quite tight so twisting them is a no go really so my next trial is to use some huge "c" type welding mole grips to try to work them in a bit at a time --gripping onthe ribs on the outside and the lip of the bend--I hope the ones I have managed to get in take all my body weight to swivel them round to change the angle maybe htere is some special tool to compress the pipe and bend together --other than the hulk Edited August 30 by scottishjohn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottishjohn Posted August 30 Author Share Posted August 30 7 minutes ago, Alan Ambrose said: They also sell some special lubricant although I'd be tempted to use washing up liquid otherwise. Can you twist them in by rotating on the axis of the installed pipe? It can get pretty messy when you're down a muddy hole wrestling pipe 😄. I know it's easy to say 'ensure the pipe & seal area is clean' but any mud, grit etc will increase the friction by loads. I,m working with a live water stream as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottishjohn Posted August 30 Author Share Posted August 30 2 minutes ago, FuerteStu said: I saw an old ground worker put a couple of ribbons of duck tape a foot back from the end to give something to grip on. Seems like a really simple and easy trick that must do wonders. He put it on before getting down in the dusty trench though could you be more expnatory of what he actually did ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottishjohn Posted August 30 Author Share Posted August 30 I have a serious suspicon that famers do not use the seals --I say that cos the last ones had green surface mould on them -- and they cost more to use them and if you just using them as field drains probably not a problem --any leaks will probably seal up with the mud and sand that come down them over time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuerteStu Posted August 30 Share Posted August 30 13 minutes ago, scottishjohn said: could you be more expnatory of what he actually did ? He did a couple of circles around the pipe about a foot back from the end. Plastic isn't great for getting a grip on, but the tape is textured so the push and twist is easier. You don't have to squeeze as hard to hold onto it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Ambrose Posted August 31 Share Posted August 31 I wonder whether the seals you have are correct for the pipe you’re using. Maybe the existing pipe is an old imperial size or something? For general groundwater drainage I don’t see much wrong with using, say, epdm rope or even no seals at all. In a recent thread, I found the existing 300mm twinwall had been squashed so was wider than it was high. I have not completed that job yet but anticipate using ratchet straps / levering with a fork on either side to make it rounder. That’s not your problem? I did spend a couple of hours measuring everything v carefully before I figured out what was going on. Another possibility are the rubber joiners - there are asymmetrical ones of those i.e. 300mm to 300+x. See: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottishjohn Posted August 31 Author Share Posted August 31 this is what I have come up with use one smallratchet around pipe to ancor another one then do same around bend then pull them together need another man to do it so cannot do it today also showing water flow today --which is just above average summer flow-1/2 tp 3/4 full in winter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottishjohn Posted August 31 Author Share Posted August 31 4 hours ago, Alan Ambrose said: I wonder whether the seals you have are correct for the pipe you’re using. Maybe the existing pipe is an old imperial size or something? For general groundwater drainage I don’t see much wrong with using, say, epdm rope or even no seals at all. In a recent thread, I found the existing 300mm twinwall had been squashed so was wider than it was high. I have not completed that job yet but anticipate using ratchet straps / levering with a fork on either side to make it rounder. That’s not your problem? I did spend a couple of hours measuring everything v carefully before I figured out what was going on. Another possibility are the rubber joiners - there are asymmetrical ones of those i.e. 300mm to 300+x. See: Ihave come ot the conculsion that there ideed by different seals for fitting bends ,as Ihave 2 different shaped ones now --will follow it up and report Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottishjohn Posted August 31 Author Share Posted August 31 (edited) as far as i can see all different makers only supply one type of seal for straight joiners and bends but the bends are alwasy a tigher fit on pipe than a straight joiner but different makers have different shapes Edited August 31 by scottishjohn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted August 31 Share Posted August 31 (edited) I have found that one of the differentiators between the big brands and the others is the ease of connecting. It doesn't matter too much on straight runs but does with bends. Does that make them worth the price doubling? Maybe if you count the time. Lesser known (here) makes from abroad can be OK too. We used Funke from the local drainage merchant. Decent price and easy joints. Go to the drainage merchants and be annoying in finding what works well. It's likely that all their makes are good. For a one off you can feather the spigot end with a file, then once started it should slide in with a squirt of detergent. Edited August 31 by saveasteading Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottishjohn Posted August 31 Author Share Posted August 31 2 hours ago, saveasteading said: For a one off you can feather the spigot end with a file, then once started it should slide in with a squirt of detergent. straight lengths --no problem its the bends which are brett martin --a very well known make ,that the problem is on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted August 31 Share Posted August 31 Just now, scottishjohn said: brett martin twice the price and still a pain? I withdraw my suggestion that they are easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottishjohn Posted August 31 Author Share Posted August 31 1 minute ago, saveasteading said: twice the price and still a pain? I withdraw my suggestion that they are easier. they will go inwith the ratchet strap method of that i,m sure --not sure iwill be able to swivel them if needed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted August 31 Share Posted August 31 7 minutes ago, scottishjohn said: -not sure I will be able to swivel them This sounds like a manufacturing issue. Half a mm will make all the difference. I wonder if pipes get wider or thinner as moulds wear out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Ambrose Posted August 31 Share Posted August 31 Would this kind of thing help do you think? https://www.toolstation.com/arctic-hayes-silicone-grease/p45065 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottishjohn Posted September 1 Author Share Posted September 1 14 hours ago, Alan Ambrose said: Would this kind of thing help do you think? https://www.toolstation.com/arctic-hayes-silicone-grease/p45065 It could be a little better than washibng up liquid ,but doubt its a game changer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpmiller Posted September 1 Share Posted September 1 49 minutes ago, scottishjohn said: It could be a little better than washibng up liquid ,but doubt its a game changer you might be surprised. Using silicone grease can result in things not wanting to stay together, in my experience. It's Very Slippery stuff... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Ambrose Posted September 1 Share Posted September 1 (edited) In that case, I would either use no seal at all or EPDM rope smaller than your existing seal. In industry, it’s fairly common to make up your own o-rings. The unknown is what make the existing pipe is, so the seal for that could be different to the elbows you’re using. Edited September 1 by Alan Ambrose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted September 1 Share Posted September 1 On 31/08/2024 at 17:46, saveasteading said: Half a mm will make all the difference. How about using a veg peeler to shave 1/2 mm off the seal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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