Labour’s ‘rooftop revolution’ to deliver solar power to millions of UK homes

[MikeSharp01]

Just read this in the paper- looks good in principle but the devil will be in getting the grid to accept all this adhoc generation (well not adhoc from the big farms). We are just working through or G99 request to get as much of our 6.8kW out into the street on one phase. There is no solar on any other homes in the road so I am hopeful they will allow it

[nod]

Solar as energy is great But looks horrible I always find it bazaar that planners allow solar panels But will seam a certain roof covering as not in keeping 

We where only a local slate But eight PV panels Fortunately Heritage backed us up Carbuncle was the word they used 

[DamonHD]

Looks horrible?  Compared to (say) the horrible concrete tiles on my roof?

 

I think solar PV on a roof is far far easier on the eye than a monstrous dangeorus polluting noisy SUV / 4x4 obstructing a road, just for one example.

[scottishjohn]

1 hour ago, DamonHD said:

I think solar PV on a roof is far far easier on the eye than a monstrous dangeorus polluting noisy SUV / 4x4 obstructing a road, just for one example.

that one is easy to sort 

go back to the way road tax used to be done along time ago

was linked to power of vehicle  and mi,eage  travelled

and thus the pollution volume 

what need is there for a 4.0 litre diesel bi turbo for an audi estate 

 

speed limit is 70 - a vw micro bus 1200cc with 18bhp will do that 

so the std 150bhp or more SUV is noot needed and should pay for it

as for super cars 

if you can afford a 1000bhp super car then you can afford to pay for it 

 

Edited July 14 by scottishjohn

[ProDave]

The DNO's need to be forced to be less hostile and more accepting of solar PV.

 

When ours was registered with the DNO (under the old names I forget which but 3.68kW) they read the model number of the inverter "TL4000" and without reading anything else rejected it, told us to disconnect it and apply for permission and there would be a network upgrade charge as it was over 3.68kW.

 

Forcing them to read the documents and that even though the inverter had 4000 in it's model number, it was only 3.68kW resolved it and they accepted it,  but it showed they are hostile, do not really want it, and will use any excuse to try and extract money from the customer.

[Dillsue]

2 hours ago, ProDave said:

 but it showed they are hostile, do not really want it, and will use any excuse to try and extract money from the customer.

That's not my experience. I got verbal agreement for 7.2kw in a couple of days subject to an undersize transformer upgrade, which the DNO paid for. Took 6 months to schedule the work and they ended up replacing 3 poles, 150metres overhead cable, transformer, 2 buried copper cable earth loops. 10 men, 2 diggers and half a dozen vans for a day. All up to modern spec EV and ASHP ready.

 

I dread to think what the bills gonna be to electrify the country!!

[ProDave]

4 minutes ago, Dillsue said:

That's not my experience. I got verbal agreement for 7.2kw in a couple of days subject to an undersize transformer upgrade, which the DNO paid for. Took 6 months to schedule the work and they ended up replacing 3 poles, 150metres overhead cable, transformer, 2 buried copper cable earth loops. 10 men, 2 diggers and half a dozen vans for a day. All up to modern spec EV and ASHP ready.

 

I dread to think what the bills gonna be to electrify the country!!

Yes we need some "levelling up"  They were equally hostile when applying for a new supply, 12KVA was all they could offer without charging for a network upgrade, I got the distinct impression they expected me to decline that and say "how much for an upgrade" 

[sharpener]

  

2 hours ago, ProDave said:

The DNO's need to be forced to be less hostile and more accepting of solar PV.

 

When ours was registered with the DNO (under the old names I forget which but 3.68kW) they read the model number of the inverter "TL4000" and without reading anything else rejected it, told us to disconnect it and apply for permission and there would be a network upgrade charge as it was over 3.68kW.

 

Forcing them to read the documents and that even though the inverter had 4000 in it's model number, it was only 3.68kW resolved it and they accepted it,  but it showed they are hostile, do not really want it, and will use any excuse to try and extract money from the customer.

 

Sounds like we had a close shave then, original FIT system has 2 x 2kW Stecagrid inverters, fortunately the panels are 16 x 230 W so exactly 3.68kW, installed under G83/1 at the time (2011) IIRC.

 

9 minutes ago, Dillsue said:

That's not my experience. I got verbal agreement for 7.2kw in a couple of days subject to an undersize transformer upgrade, which the DNO paid for. Took 6 months to schedule the work and they ended up replacing 3 poles, 150metres overhead cable, transformer, 2 buried copper cable earth loops. 10 men, 2 diggers and half a dozen vans for a day. All up to modern spec EV and ASHP ready.

 

I dread to think what the bills gonna be to electrify the country!!

 

Blimey, what DNO was that? Am only 200m from the substation but am still expecting pushback if I try for more. Have now got a total of 6.9kW so ATM I have lot of curtailment in the summer, would like to do my bit (and get paid for it).
 

Edited July 14 by sharpener

[ProDave]

1 hour ago, sharpener said:

Blimey, what DNO was that? Am only 200m from the substation but am still expecting pushback if I try for more. Have now got a total of 6.9kW so ATM I have lot of curtailment in the summer, would like to do my bit (and get paid for it).

SSEN

 

We are not far from the substation but we were the 8th house connecting to an existing 100KVA transformer.  They seem to have calculated 100/8 = 12.5 and offered us a 12KVA connection hoping we would cough up to upgrade the transformer.  They clearly have not heard of diversity.

[sharpener]

Thanks. Was directed at @Dillsue in fact!

 

By coincidence I remembered I had bookmarked this useful demand calculator also from SSEN https://www.ssen.co.uk/our-services/tools-and-maps/demand-calculator/. Allows you to test out what you might get away with before actually applying.

 

Your 12kW sounds very restrictive. WPD have let me add a 12kW(t) HP and 7kW(e) EV charge point on my existing 80A supply, I was quite surprised. Couldn't easily upgrade to 100A as have 16 sq mm meter tails going by unknown route through a 500mm stone wall.

[ProDave]

7 minutes ago, sharpener said:

Thanks. Was directed at @Dillsue in fact!

 

By coincidence I remembered I had bookmarked this useful demand calculator also from SSEN https://www.ssen.co.uk/our-services/tools-and-maps/demand-calculator/. Allows you to test out what you might get away with before actually applying.

 

Your 12kW sounds very restrictive. WPD have let me add a 12kW(t) HP and 7kW(e) EV charge point on my existing 80A supply, I was quite surprised. Couldn't easily upgrade to 100A as have 16 sq mm meter tails going by unknown route through a 500mm stone wall.

That calculator gives me estimated 7KVA rising to 14KVA if I add a car charger.  I better not tell anybody if I ever add a car charger then.

 

Actually our 12KVA supply is in no way limiting, it is wired in the same 35mm concentric cable to the house as any other modern connection, and fitted with a 100A main fuse.  So it is 12KVA only in name.

[Pocster]

DNO ‘s can certainly be hostile . I argued with mine for a yr to allow more export ( stuck at 3.6kw ) . They wouldn’t budge . Hence went down the Solaredge I.e dc battery route .

Multiple reasons ( probably did a thread on it on here ) . Problem was infrastructure needs upgrading and there were zero plans to do that . 

[sharpener]

1 hour ago, ProDave said:

They clearly have not heard of diversity.

 

I think diversity will become less applicable and this will give them tremendous problems in future with all sorts of heavy loads switching on at the start of the cheap periods. It is not like not using all four cooker rings at the same time, everyone is going to set their home battery, EV charger and HP to kick in at the same time. 10 mins (or even 30 mins) of programmable dither is not going to make much difference. In my case that will be 67 amps out of my permitted 80 all at once.

 

The DNOs don't control which supply companies the punters are signed up to, so the small variations between them in the cheap period timings aren't going to help much either. I forsee OFGEM having to step in to enforce more variability in them.

 

1 hour ago, ProDave said:

So it is 12KVA only in name.

 

Silly, if they are nominally going to restrict you to 12kW then logic dictates that they should fit a 60 (or 50) amp company fuse.

[scottishjohn]

what i have been told is that you can have up to 16kw per phase

so a 3 phase supply you you have 48kw

I have got as far as solar yet ,but that is what a solar supplier has told me

 i have a 100kva 3 phase supply,wel I WLL WHEN THEY GET ROUND TO FITTING A METER 

Edited July 14 by scottishjohn

[Dillsue]

5 hours ago, sharpener said:

Blimey, what DNO was that? Am only 200m from the substation but am still expecting pushback if I try for more. 

SPEN. Very easy to deal with.

[SteamyTea]

35 minutes ago, scottishjohn said:

i have been told is that you can have up to 16kw per phase

Do you mean 16 amps per phase?

[DamonHD]

2 hours ago, sharpener said:

 

I think diversity will become less applicable and this will give them tremendous problems in future with all sorts of heavy loads switching on at the start of the cheap periods. It is not like not using all four cooker rings at the same time, everyone is going to set their home battery, EV charger and HP to kick in at the same time. 10 mins (or even 30 mins) of programmable dither is not going to make much difference. In my case that will be 67 amps out of my permitted 80 all at once.

 

The DNOs don't control which supply companies the punters are signed up to, so the small variations between them in the cheap period timings aren't going to help much either. I forsee OFGEM having to step in to enforce more variability in them.

I was just on an Elexon working group considering allowing domestic PV users to net exports and imports in any (settlement) half-hour, which would save the home a little money and would reduce settlement inconsistencies elsewhere in the system.  One of my worries was precisely the perverse behaviour that it might encourage around the edges of HH periods, eg everyone 'using up' any excess export in minute 29 at once.

[scottishjohn]

23 hours ago, SteamyTea said:

Do you mean 16 amps per phase?

NO

VOLTS X AMPS =WATTS

240 X 16=3640WATTS -- 

so that can,t be right 

and as iwill have 100amps per phase 

that would give 24kw 

 

but limited to 16 kw 

 

time will tell anyway -they could change the rules anyway  

 and at current pice structure you and me do not want to be selling it back to grid --it don,t work out viable if your our 50

Edited July 15 by scottishjohn

[SteamyTea]

16 minutes ago, scottishjohn said:

that can,t be right

There is a maximum 16 amp per phase limit that the DNOs have agreed on that does not need special permission (G98 as opposed G99, I think they are the low voltage part of the over arching G100 ENA regulations). You still have to notify them and used approved equipment, like burning timber, you are not allowed to do as you like, regardless of what you think.

 

Technically you cannot export at your supply maximum capacity i.e. 80 or 100 amps per phase, as that would require the voltage to rise too high.  This causes a lot of problems for the grid.

UK voltage is not 240V, it is 230V -6% +10%.

So at a maximum for a 16A system at 253V is 4.048 kW.

 

Selling excess power to an energy company is generally better value than having the system disconnect when you have no use for it.

If your system disconnects because you have no use for the power, your system is too large, and you have wasted your cash on it.