makingprogress Posted June 6 Share Posted June 6 Hello, We are nearing the completion of renovating our house. I now need to complete a long list of DIY tasks. Most importantly is to create a cupboard that is fire rated for 30mins in the area highlighted in the image. Building control want it fire rated it as we are going to put a fridge freezer in it, although I am not sure how to reconcile that with the need for ventilation for the fridge to work effectively. So, a few questions: 1. Is anyone aware of any reasons why that cupboard shouldn't be fire rated (with a fridge freezer in it)? 2. If it has to be fire rated, any suggestions on the best way to do it whilst providing sufficient ventilation for the fridge to perform. The obvious answer would be to move it to the utility room - that would be a very expensive option as we would have to reinstall the units / surfaces etc. Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMo Posted June 6 Share Posted June 6 35 minutes ago, makingprogress said: area highlighted in the image Hi no image. I would put in utility, get BC sign off then put it where was best for me. But not sure in a hallway would be my first option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted June 6 Share Posted June 6 Why is the fridge not in the kitchen? That seems a major design flaw. As above put it somewhere "normal" for BC sign off. Awaiting the picture..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted June 6 Share Posted June 6 1 hour ago, makingprogress said: cupboard that is fire rated for 30mins The dreaded fridge bursting into flame' danger. It seems ott but perhaps there is more to it. One thickness of normal grey plasterboard provides half hour fire resistance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makingprogress Posted June 6 Author Share Posted June 6 (edited) Sorry about the image error. Should be attached now. In terms of location, it's a second fridge for booze etc. Day to day fridge is in the kitchen - you can see it on the image now. Do you think that a surround of plasterboard or 44mm fire rated wood with an intumescent grille, and then a fire door would suffice? Edited June 6 by makingprogress Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMo Posted June 6 Share Posted June 6 I would just omit all together, putting a fridge in a sealed room? Transfer what you want cold on a daily basis to the normal fridge, like everyone else does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelvin Posted June 6 Share Posted June 6 (edited) 1 hour ago, JohnMo said: I would just omit all together, putting a fridge in a sealed room? Transfer what you want cold on a daily basis to the normal fridge, like everyone else does. Exactly what we do in the current house and what we will do in the new house. Create some shelving in the cupboard to store it and transfer as necessary. Removes BC headache, one less thing consuming electricity, removes an electrical appliance so reduces fire risk, and, if you’ve not bought it already, saves a few hundred quid which you can spend on beer/wine. Edited June 6 by Kelvin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makingprogress Posted June 6 Author Share Posted June 6 Thanks for the suggestions, unfortunately we have a large family and very busy lives so a second fridge is a must. My "booze etc" was perhaps a bit flippant - it will be used for more than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelvin Posted June 6 Share Posted June 6 If you have a garage bung it in there. We fitted a full height fridge in the kitchen and an under counter freezer in the utility room. We have another freezer but it’s in the garage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makingprogress Posted June 6 Author Share Posted June 6 Wish we had a garage for many reasons! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelvin Posted June 6 Share Posted June 6 Well personally I wouldn’t be putting a fridge/freezer in a closed cupboard fire rating or not for the same reason we don’t have a tumble dryer. Rethink the utility room option as that’s the best place for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMo Posted June 6 Share Posted June 6 12 minutes ago, Kelvin said: Well personally I wouldn’t be putting a fridge/freezer in a closed cupboard fire rating or not for the same reason we don’t have a tumble dryer. Rethink the utility room option as that’s the best place for it. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted June 6 Share Posted June 6 Just make sure the fridge is not there for completion inspection, out it in the shed, in your car, anywhere out of sight. Then just put it where you want. Too trivial to do anything else with imho. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted June 6 Share Posted June 6 The risk of a fridge going on fire is miniscule. I'm thinking that the bco thinks this is on a fire escape route. What happens if you are escaping from a fire and the fridge also bursts into flame? A fridge in a cupboard will not work, as it needs free air. So pragmatically, tell him you're not having that fridge because, after enquiry you realise it won't work. Scrap the cupboard. Later do what you want. Fridge in a recess with free air above it, or openly in the hall. Not in a cupboard. I'm usually reluctant to say such things, but I don't think the risk is real. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Ambrose Posted June 6 Share Posted June 6 We have our fridge/freezer in a kitchen unit type cupboard. Think that’s fairly standard. It has vents at the bottom, maybe at the top - I don’t remember looking This kind of thing: https://www.diy-kitchens.com/kitchen-units/appliance-housings/integrated-fridge-freezer/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelvin Posted June 6 Share Posted June 6 Yes, it’s how ours is fitted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted June 6 Share Posted June 6 5 hours ago, Alan Ambrose said: fridge/freezer in a kitchen unit type cupboard That's a very good point. I had rather assumed that these units had a fan chucking heat out of one bottom grill, and allowing room temperature air in by another grill. If they don't the they will be rather inefficient. The instructions for a free standing fridge require it to be a distance off the wall so that the radiating grillage on the back can release heat which flows upwards and into the room. Cooler room air will enter from below and at the sides. But if it is all in a box and left to its own devices then it won't be efficient. The heat exchanger will draw heat out of the food, pump it into the radiator and it will just sit there inside the nearly sealed box. Also the compressor creates heat so that is all kept in the box too. And another thing. If the bottom grilles are releasing and drawing back air, won't it simply take the shortest route and cycle warm air through again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makingprogress Posted June 6 Author Share Posted June 6 Thanks @saveasteading it is bonkers - we would actually be increasing the fire risk if we did what the BCO is asking us to do! Thanks all for the contribution Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ETC Posted June 6 Share Posted June 6 A couple of points: Where does it say in the Regulations that you cannot put a fridge in a hall? How did the BCO get from cupboard to fridge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kandgmitchell Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 20 hours ago, saveasteading said: Later do what you want. Fridge in a recess with free air above it, or openly in the hall. Not in a cupboard. I'm usually reluctant to say such things, but I don't think the risk is real. I'd second that, I really can't see that the level of risk warrants that sort of precaution. I'd worry about charging an electric bike in the hallway but a fridge? Just get the project signed off without the fridge and then get on with the life you want afterwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 I was hoping one of our boffins might explain if fridges in boxes work by a different means? I've got 2 self standing fridges. One in the kitchen and another in a hallway, shock horror, am I safe? The hallway one has a rear grille. The kitchen one has a plastic board backing but I can feel hot spots through it. Built-in fridges may be completely designed for purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kandgmitchell Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 5 minutes ago, saveasteading said: One in the kitchen and another in a hallway, shock horror, am I safe? Nanny state stuff again - could get worse after July 4th.................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 19 minutes ago, saveasteading said: I was hoping one of our boffins might explain if fridges in boxes work by a different means? I've got 2 self standing fridges. One in the kitchen and another in a hallway, shock horror, am I safe? The hallway one has a rear grille. The kitchen one has a plastic board backing but I can feel hot spots through it. Built-in fridges may be completely designed for purpose. They all work by convection. On the back there is a "radiator" which is where the extracted heat is removed. sometimes it is exposed sometimes as a concealed flat panel that gets warm. The built in ones have grilles in the bottom to allow cold air to be drawn in at floor level, under the fridge and up the back. They need a gap between the back of the fridge and the wall and the top of the cabinet needs to be open. So they are certainly not "enclosed" and definitely not in a 30 minute fire compartment. I still think rather than argue against dubious implementation of a probably non existent regulation, just make sure the fridge is not there for the completion inspection. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 47 minutes ago, ProDave said: they are certainly not "enclosed" Cold air can't be drawn in unless warm air is expelled. do you think the ambient air is actively sucked in by a fan? That might work. There aren't even vents in the top of these' cabinets so I still feel i am missing something. 51 minutes ago, ProDave said: definitely not in a 30 minute fire compartment. Although in reality if a fire was to break out inside the fridge, tightly set within a box, I can't see it spreading far as there isn't a supply of oxygen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 1 hour ago, kandgmitchell said: could get worse after July 4th.... Politics. Stop it. Or is it an Independence day thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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