Planning permission ldc

[Frances10]

Morning all

Looking for any advice.

We got planning permission for an extension 4 years ago . We started and dug out all trenches and filled a trench with concrete and had building control out for inspections and we also have date stamped photos for proof within the 3 year limit. 
Unfortunately, due to covid and unforeseen circumstances we had to stop the build.

Now we have just started again someone has thought our PP has expired and reported it to the enforcement officer.

The Planning department have requested we apply for a Lawful Dev Certificate which can take up to 8 weeks.

We have shown them our evidence but still want us to apply for this. I just think it’s crazy and totally time wasting as the evidence is already there to be seen. 
Any thoughts anyone ?

 

 

[ProDave]

This won't help you but may help others avoid a similar situation.

 

When I started ours, I informed the planners that I had "started" and received a confirmation by return acknowledging they were aware the development had started.

 

Planning and building control rarely talk to each other.

[Temp]

The issue is this... The planners are only allowed to issue legally binding decisions using official documents. So for example if they just wrote you a letter saying your PP is till valid that would not be legally binding on them, they could in theory change their mind. So if you want a legally binding ruling on the status of your PP then you would have to apply for an LDC.

 

If you are confident that you can prove your PP is still valid you could just carry on. I think what I would do is carry on working AND apply for an LDC on the grounds that work started before PP expired. 

 

Its extremely unlikely the planners would start any kind of enforcement knowing an application for an LDC has been filed. 

[Jilly]

What meanies. Surely you could just send in the Building Control Commencement paperwork?

 

I had a condition that my building had to be started within three years, but not completed. Did you have a planning condition  which said you have to finish within a certain time? 

[Frances10]

Thank you for your replies. They have actually asked us to cease building work. I have documented evidence and dated photos so fairly confident that we should get it.
But asking us to stop and wait 8 weeks plus for this certificate when they can clearly see we started is the bigger problem. And as far as I can think is a total waste of time, money and paperwork. 
Jeez it takes weeks/months to get an answer from them but as soon as they think you’ve done something wrong they’re on you like a rash!
No wonder they have such a high turnover of staff 

[joe90]

I had a similar fight with planners, dated photo,s and docs and I told them I would NOT back down, I won 👍

19 hours ago, ProDave said:

Planning and building control rarely talk to each other.

If ever…. When I lived in Shropshire and selling a property planners told me a conservatory did not meet rules, I had building regs and paperwork so I threatened to sue them for the devaluation of the property (£40k)if the conservatory had to come down . I got planning within 24 hrs.

19 hours ago, Temp said:

Its extremely unlikely the planners would start any kind of enforcement

I agree, they have too much work on their hands to fight a loosing case IMO.

[ProDave]

54 minutes ago, Frances10 said:

Thank you for your replies. They have actually asked us to cease building work. I have documented evidence and dated photos so fairly confident that we should get it.

I always thought as long as there was a pending application to regularise a situation, they would not take enforcement action until that application has concluded.

 

So worst case, stop until you have your LDC application lodged.

[Frances10]

Thanks again all.

I really don’t want to stop my contractor for 8 weeks for something that I’ve given them the evidence for. Just feel if that’s not sufficient well that’s not really my problem and if they want to threaten me go ahead.

Someone has already snitched to them today about work still going on. Even though we’re just making it safe n secure. Village life!

[joe90]

2 minutes ago, Frances10 said:

Someone has already snitched to them today about work still going on.

Yes I had a neighbour from hell like that, I got to know my local enforcement officer who turned out to be sensible, I let him know exactly what I was doing each day.

Edited May 24 by joe90

[garrymartin]

IANAL, but my understanding is the LDC is not mandatory. If you have evidence, including records of Building Control inspections, the planning department cannot stop your work unless they issue an enforcement notice. If they have seen your evidence, I doubt they would take that course of action.

 

They can *ask* you to stop work while you apply for an LDC, but to the best of my knowledge they a) cannot force you to stop work just by asking and b) cannot force you to apply for an LDC either.

 

By all means, apply for the LDC to keep everyone happy and to be able to authoritatively respond to any future queries from interested parties, but for now, I'd say carry on...

[Frances10]

I know in this day n age everyone has to tick boxes and cover themselves no matter what.

 

And I do understand this can’t be helped and it isn’t really planners/enforcers fault at end of the day.
It’s just a bit sad everyone is so scared of any retribution in all walks of life that sensible decisions don’t happen.

Just unnecessary paperwork, costs and time delays. 

 

[joe90]

19 minutes ago, Frances10 said:

I know in this day n age everyone has to tick boxes and cover themselves no matter what.

 

And I do understand this can’t be helped and it isn’t really planners/enforcers fault at end of the day.
It’s just a bit sad everyone is so scared of any retribution in all walks of life that sensible decisions don’t happen.

Just unnecessary paperwork, costs and time delays. 

 

No, the planners are wrong, this can be helped, planners just need to get their act together. I have fought planners on a number of occasions and won as I did my homework and proved I was right. Don’t back down.  This says it all….

 

 You must start the work within 3 years, or the council will serve you with a notice declaring your plans of no effect, which means they are out of date.  If this happens then you will need to submit a fresh application with the appropriate fees.  However, once the work has started on site (within 3 years of submission of the application)  there is no set time limit for completing the work,

 

demand a meeting with the planner or his boss if not available and present your case and evidence and threaten to go to the press if they do not cooperate. ( I hate planners!!!!).

[Dave Jones]

if you have had a BCO inspection then the permission has commenced end of conversation.

 

If enforcement are soo thick as to challenge you on that, advise you will be appealing their enforcement (its free) and asking for full costs award.

 

Unfortunately the public sector attracts utter failures unemployable in the private sector, knock them down a peg or too when you come across a really special one.

[Mr Punter]

+1.  They are being idiots.  Foundations are commencement.  You don't need a LDC.  Just carry on.

[Temp]

 

Was the 3 year time limit a formal numbered planning condition? I suspect not but if it was one option would be to apply to have it discharged 🙂

 

There is a fee but one fee covers all of the conditions you ask to be discharged at the same time. So if you discharge them in two groups then there are two fees.

 

[joe90]

1 hour ago, Temp said:

Was the 3 year time limit a formal numbered planning condition?

The three year time limit is to start not finish which he has proof he has done.

[Alan Ambrose]

I think I would send your LPA a very polite but formal letter describing the exact situation with names, dates, appended docs etc. Ask them whether they are planning on issuing an official enforcement notice or are they just making a request. Tell them that stopping your contractor will involve you in significant cost (get your contractor to write a letter with a cost estimate  for the delay) and that you will look to the LPA for damages and re-reimbursement of costs for any unnecessary delays they cause. Suggest that your neighbour (name him) doesn't understand the rules correctly.

 

Copy to the head of planning if you're feeling bolshy. Likewise, send a copy to your neighbour - there's nothing like a bit of transparency to shake people up.

 

I expect you will receive official withdrawal and go-ahead within a day, maybe two.

Edited May 26 by Alan Ambrose

[Temp]

On 25/05/2024 at 22:45, joe90 said:

The three year time limit is to start not finish which he has proof he has done.

 

Yeah I know that but I think you can only apply to discharge numbered conditions.

[kandgmitchell]

On 26/05/2024 at 17:43, Alan Ambrose said:

I think I would send your LPA a very polite but formal letter describing the exact situation with names, dates, appended docs etc. Ask them whether they are planning on issuing an official enforcement notice or are they just making a request. Tell them that stopping your contractor will involve you in significant cost (get your contractor to write a letter with a cost estimate  for the delay) and that you will look to the LPA for damages and re-reimbursement of costs for any unnecessary delays they cause. Suggest that your neighbour (name him) doesn't understand the rules correctly.

 

Ditto, all your interactions should be in written format. I presume you have had a letter from the planning department and not just a verbal request from an enforcement officer. If you used the LA for building control I'm amazed that they have let this go this far. Threats of enforcement action should never be made lightly by a Council (normally the planners would have run the scenario past their legal department) so you need to be professional in response and stop this nonsense in it's tracks. Put your position in writing and insist on a response likewise in writing.

[Frances10]

Thanks everyone for the replies.

 

Unfortunately she has said we have to apply for this lawful development certificate and she is not going to discuss it anymore!!

I still can’t see why when we have shown her dated photos and written confirmation from building control. 

 

[Redbeard]

Polite letter as suggested above but, the Planning officer's mind being set, addressed to Head of Planning and chair of Planning Committee and copied to Plg Officer. Ask them how a start as described could *not* be seen as a start and a locking-in of the permission. Copy it to the complainant too?

[joe90]

You can also use an ombudsman (free) for local council problems.