Solar guy around

[CalvinHobbes]

So had guy raound from a local solar firm today. He seemed a trustworthy sort. He was at first sceptical we actually had a three phase supply until I showed him it. Then he said we would have to get a minimum of 6kw and could go up to 12kw. He also said we should get a battery so a hybrid inverter and that we would be paid 14p for each kw sold to the grid (price resets in September). I said the 12kw might be too expensive for us but he said economies of scale and we would be surprised. He also suggested we use this microgeneration converter for an immersion but I thought it was better to use the ashp? Said they use chicken wire round the panels to keep the birds out if we wanted.

[Nickfromwales]

The eddi is a great bit of kit, and I would defo use it for diverting excess (once you have established you will have a lot of excess that is ) vs using the ASHP. Pockets of excess are simply too sporadic for this to be a wise choice IMHO.

 

If you can afford the additional panels then go for it, as the economics usually favour it, plus your payback / RoI should be better / shorter too. The addition of batteries throws the question of diversion control into a numbers game, as it may be the case that all your batteries get sucked dry at night and fully recharged during the day so you'll not have any of the usual "excess" to bother with the cost of the eddi, plus the immersion can just be timed to coincide with midday peak generation too, meaning you just use what the panels are producing or what the batteries have stored within your 4 walls, before then considering exporting it at all.

 

A lot of questions here, like do you work from home, is it a south facing array or E/W split, ands a bunch more tbh..... 

[Nickfromwales]

Chicken wire is nonsense, tell them to use an appropriate product. This makes me think they're shoddy installers TBH. Also, why on-roof and not in-roof? Is this a retro-fit over an already installed roof, and if so, what is the roof covered in (tiles / slates?).

[CalvinHobbes]

Because we are having a corrugated roof and it's going on next week, tbh the solar panels we weren't intending putting on.  There are always people at home at least 2 adults and although the roof isn't south facting its not far off. 

 

Edited April 27 by CalvinHobbes

[FuerteStu]

26 minutes ago, CalvinHobbes said:

So had guy raound from a local solar firm today. He seemed a trustworthy sort. He was at first sceptical we actually had a three phase supply until I showed him it. Then he said we would have to get a minimum of 6kw and could go up to 12kw. He also said we should get a battery so a hybrid inverter and that we would be paid 14p for each kw sold to the grid (price resets in September). I said the 12kw might be too expensive for us but he said economies of scale and we would be surprised. He also suggested we use this microgeneration converter for an immersion but I thought it was better to use the ashp? Said they use chicken wire round the panels to keep the birds out if we wanted.

Several things there are alarm bells rather than reassurance. 

 

And that comes from someone who was an installer who left the market because of the heavy insistence in sales and profit rather than actual green energy. 

 

Get several quotes, get several opinions, then trust your gut. 

[CalvinHobbes]

I have been so gullible through this self build and it's been expensive.  

My gut has been useless. What are your alarm bells, I get the chicken wire is one.

Does it have to be a minimum 6kw system because we are 3 phase.

The electrician was going to put the house electrics on one phase so do we need a 3 phase inverter or can we have a one phase inverter?

 

 

 

Edited April 27 by CalvinHobbes

[FuerteStu]

Things that stood out.

 

His reluctance to believe a house was 3 phase. It shows his tendency to only be installing in 'standard' installs rather than modern or commercial. It shouldn't be something he would be surprised about. 

 

He gave you a price, and then a deadline. That's a salesman's technique of wanting you to not think and just handover money. 

 

The 'excess straight to immersion' option doesn't factor in the complex variables in modern builds. He's probably used to pushing the add ons for retrofitting older houses. 

 

Birds don't worry me. Their nests are seasonal. Rats are a bigger problem and chicken wire does not stop them. 

 

Chicken wire is ugly, lazy and cheap

[FuerteStu]

That being said.. He might not have been wrong about the best setup for your house. 

 

Just had his own reasons for it. 

 

Get more quotes. Be sure of the advice.. Not everyone's right, including me

[CalvinHobbes]

Thank you, we will. TBF it is very unusual to have 3 phase in a house in this area unless it's a farmhouse. I agree he was very much selling.

[Nickfromwales]

Yup, agree with much of the above.

 

31 minutes ago, CalvinHobbes said:

I have been so gullible through this self build and it's been expensive.  

My gut has been useless. What are your alarm bells, I get the chicken wire is one.

Does it have to be a minimum 6kw system because we are 3 phase.

The electrician was going to put the house electrics on one phase so do we need a 3 phase inverter or can we have a one phase inverter?

Alarm bells are, in a nutshell, their utter shite level of courtesy to you in giving no proper explanation for any of their recommendations, ergo you're here sense-checking them. Yes it's a good idea to get some feedback here, but not a complete overarching breakdown, demonstrating how poor a service they are giving you. Double-glazing style, fly-by-night crew, afaic.

 

If you have told them the house will be 1ph (will it defo be this?) then there is only a max and not a min before you need to approach the DNO for permission to install >3.68kW export capability, (iirc). The reference to there being a minimum size of 6kW is total bollocks, you can fit 1x 300w panel with a micro-inverter on the back of it if you wanted to.

 

Why do you have 3ph if you're not using it? Do you have a 3ph meter installed? If you do, then you can max out your solar and install a 3ph inverter, but you'll need a 3ph 'CU1' to accept the inverter, with a 1ph breaker in it to feed the 1ph CU, and then a 1ph 'CU2' for the house 

 

Having a full 3ph setup (including a 3ph CU) means you can install 3 lots of the allowed 3.68kW, so you can max out at ~11kW before needing permission, but doesn't mean you won't get permission and could fit even more, it would just need to be justified.

 

What size house? What expected demand for electricity do you anticipate (your consumption)?

[CalvinHobbes]

The meter will be 3 phase but the electrician said he was using one phase in the main house itself for safety. The other phases will be available for charging the car. He has a massive thing about earthing. The house is 2600 and included a granny annexe. 5 adults will live in it. 5 ensuites . 10kw ashp apparently (though I think that seems overkill) I would like to be able to add panels in the future.  I have requested the meter install so they will be in touch Monday to arrange.

[Nickfromwales]

I've done (specified and then installed via subbies) a number of 3ph CU's in domestic residences, and "safety" as a reason 'not' to do this is just nonsense tbh.

Also, you'll need the PV to be on the 3ph so it can deliver to the EV charging, if going on diversion controls; My Energy do the eddi but it's a part of a My Energy family of products so you can go for their Zappi LINK EV charger (1ph and 3ph 'rapid') which allows them to communicate, but also now they do the Libbi LINK battery setup too, so the lot will talk and you can optimise this end of things far better than cobbling together different bits of kit that all speak different languages.....

 

May be a good idea to ring My Energy and run this by them, at least for another yardstick on price vs advice, if nothing else.

[CalvinHobbes]

Thank you so much, right will contact them and enlighten the spark.

[Mattg4321]

Only downside to that plan is the Libbi is stupidly expensive. 

[Conor]

@CalvinHobbesthe microgen export tariff is pretty much the same as the economy 7 night tariff. So the cheapest way to heat water is to use the ASHP off peak. It'll be twice as cheap as using a solar diverter. I've my timed from 7-9am... on a sunny morning at this time of year I'm generating 1-2kW from the PV, so double saving. Plus you save the £200 or so for the upfront cost of an Eddi or other diverter.

Edited April 28 by Conor

[Susie]

If your thinking of a new electrician then use this https://niceic.com/find-a-tradesperson/?gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjw57exBhAsEiwAaIxaZll6AVV04VztOTTJQfczT8BO4CBYuAh4_aTWx4D1Hui2-Vc7d8WicRoCLZwQAvD_BwE

 

you would be best with someone approved not just domestic as they are more likely to understand 3 phase, I’m not sure yours does.  Explain your a new build as it will make a difference.  We are approved and only work in commercial and industrial we don’t do domestic as too many times the electrician is called in after plastering or we are told can we do it without making a mess. Luckily we’re based in Trafford Park Manchester so can still pick and choose our jobs. 
Depending on your area an approved contractor who also says domestic next to the search results is your ideal contact. 
 

if the annexe is virtually self contained ie own kitchen, washing, lounge etc then think of it more like a small house on its own phase. 
If you only have one meter the solar can reduce the metered units for everyone as they are all set for net metering. 
 

also worth considering a time of use meter e.g. economy 7 not sure about the wait time for these meter installs (3 phase economy 7) our was more complex and took a long time, due to lack of competent installers at EDF. 

 

[Andehh]

18 hours ago, CalvinHobbes said:

I have been so gullible through this self build and it's been expensive.

 

 

 

 

Most people are with trades, and sadly it's an expensive education everyone will have gone through at some point. Buildhub.org is a great resource to check and seek advice... Just pitty those that don't have this resource to guide them on their builds!! (though you could say ignorance is bliss.....).

 

"trust, but verify"

[SteamyTea]

We had a thread about 3 phase net metering a while back.

There seemed, at the time, to be a lot of confusion, but from what I understand, it is something you need. Then you can easily add different amounts of generation, including zero, to different phases and not loose any because your phases are not perfectly balanced all the time.

[CalvinHobbes]

Thanks to ye all. Mea culpa. I misunderstood the electrician re the three phase. I got them talking and all sorted. Well sort of...we agreed stage 1 which was to get the panels on the roof while scaffold up. Stage 2 is the inverter. 11.6kw going up. 

Edited April 29 by CalvinHobbes