Need a copy of paperwork to submit to dno for panels

[CalvinHobbes]

Hello, where could I find a copy of the paperwork that I need to submit to my electric provider to get the g98. The electrician will fill it in but he asked me to get the paperwork. I asked the guy at the power company in ni did he have to be mcs registered he said no. Roofers will mount them electrician will connect them. Just unsure how much to put up 5kw or 7kw.

[Surfiejim]

With National Grid it's done online. I googled G98 examples and found a few things but it's still a bit confusing.

[Pollock73]

Link to the National grid G98 page

 

National Grid - G98 connection procedures

Edited August 23 by Pollock73

[Pollock73]

Example schematic for an G98 application

G98 PV Schematic example.docx

 

and some G98 documents

G98_Amd 6_Form B.docx G98-G99 Briefing 16-11-18.pdf G99_Standard_Application_Form_v7.pdf G98 Single Premises.pdf

 

A few other schematics

 

 

Edited August 23 by Pollock73

[sharpener]

The above schematics all appear to show the inverter coming off the existing consumer unit.

 

Though often seen, the IET Code of Practice does not allow this, you need to fit a separate CU so it does not share an RCD with the existing domestic loads.

[G and J]

46 minutes ago, sharpener said:

The above schematics all appear to show the inverter coming off the existing consumer unit.

 

Though often seen, the IET Code of Practice does not allow this, you need to fit a separate CU so it does not share an RCD with the existing domestic loads.

Please could you show me a simple diagram of that.  I thought I understood how our Solar PV would connect but I’m clearly missing something. 

[Gone West]

48 minutes ago, sharpener said:

Though often seen, the IET Code of Practice does not allow this, you need to fit a separate CU so it does not share an RCD with the existing domestic loads.

Is this a recent change or has it always been like that since the MCS FiT started. Our system was apparently installed in 2012 and is wired like the above diagrams. Could it be wired to the main CU if it didn't share an RCD with other loads?

[sharpener]

4 hours ago, G and J said:

Please could you show me a simple diagram of that.  I thought I understood how our Solar PV would connect but I’m clearly missing something.

 

Not very simple but here you are:

 

 

 

4 hours ago, Gone West said:

Is this a recent change or has it always been like that since the MCS FiT started. Our system was apparently installed in 2012 and is wired like the above diagrams.

 

The IET CoP was fairly new when I installed the battery system in 2022 and this requirement was in the first edition. It was also there in the 2nd. Neither of them had in the "typical configurations" a suitable diagram for the Victron inverters which have separate AC in and AC Out (which since they had a rep on the editorial panel I don't understand). I do not know about the 3rd edition.

 

With the more common battery inverters (GivEnergy, Solax etc) with a single point of connection you would have a separate garage unit for it teed into the main meter tails. There is another requirement here, any RCD or RCBO needs to be the new bi-directional type, earlier models only work with the power flow in the "correct" direction i.e. from line terminals to load terminals.

 

5 hours ago, Gone West said:

Our system was apparently installed in 2012 and is wired like the above diagrams.

 

Did it include a battery in 2012? This CoP applies only to EESS, it does not cover PV-only installations. The AC-coupled PV on our W roof was installed in 2011; I fitted an extra mini-CU for it and a dedicated socket for the freezer before the installers came. I don't know how they would have wired it if I hadn't. Originally they were not protected by any RCD. Still aren't if the Victron battery inverter is bypassed when not in service.

 

5 hours ago, Gone West said:

Could it be wired to the main CU if it didn't share an RCD with other loads?

 

Depending on the internal physical layout you could maybe fit an RCBO connected directly to the incoming meter tails. Ideally you would move the main RCD and fit the new RCBO on the other side of it so it is obvious it is not supplied through it. We have done similar with the RCD for the garage supply (Crabtree Loadstar unit, physically mounted on the DIN rail in the Starbreaker CU housing but not plugged into the load side busbar). Certainly looks a lot neater than the usual nest of Henley blocks.

 

Recently had a long discussion re all this with the installers on how to wire in the heat pump. Their original plan would have meant it could not run off the inverter at all so could not use the batteries for time shifting. End result was a modification of what is shown in the diagram.

[G and J]

23 minutes ago, sharpener said:

Not very simple but here you are:

 

 

So, if I’ve understood that correctly, the Victron inverter & battery can run the whole house if the grid is disconnected, and unless the bypass is activated, grid power comes through the Victron.  Your main CU only connects directly to either the grid or the Victron.  
 

The west roof inverter however connects to the CU in parallel with either the Victron or the grid, depending on the bypass, which I think means your west roof kit is connected as @Pollock73’s schematics.

[sharpener]

16 minutes ago, G and J said:

So, if I’ve understood that correctly, the Victron inverter & battery can run the whole house if the grid is disconnected, and unless the bypass is activated, grid power comes through the Victron.

 

Just so. The 5kVA Victron has a 50A passthrough capability so is just about big enough to supply the whole house with any available combination of grid and battery. If I need to I can put the garage on bypass to supply the EVCS direct from the grid.

 

16 minutes ago, G and J said:

your west roof kit is connected as @Pollock73’s schematics

 

Yes. This was how it was wired before I added the battery system. One advantage is the original W roof PV can keep generating in a blackout, the Victron provides a virtual grid which it can sync to.

 

Having re-read the whole thread I may have assumed the OP was asking about a hybrid system. If this wasn't the case and it concerns plain old PV then you can ignore all the diverting stuff about the IET CoP.

Edited August 25 by sharpener

[G and J]

6 minutes ago, sharpener said:

 

Just so. The 5kVA Victron has a 50A passthrough capability so is just about big enough to supply the whole house with any combination of  grid and battery.

 

 

Yes. This was how it was wired before I added the battery system. One advantage is the original W roof PV can keep generating in a blackout, the Victron provides a virtual grid which it can sync to.

 

Having re-read the whole thread I may have assumed the OP was asking about a hybrid system. If this wasn't the case and it concerns plain old PV then you can ignore all the diverting stuff about the IET CoP.

Ta.  That’s helped me get my thinking straight.  We will be putting solar PV in day one but batteries only once we are sure we can afford them which depends on how the total spend goes.  Our lecky meter will be in our attached garage and so I’m intending to bring the ac from the solar inverter back to the garage to a cross connection point where I can insert a battery unit thingy like you have but at a later date.
 

I’m also planning to have two CUs, each separately fed from the cross connection point, one to feed lights, MVHR, router, Wi-Fi and freezer, which can then be battery backed up, and the other for everything else.  My thinking is that the extra cable and second CU is a small short term cost to allow for easy installation of a decent sized battery system in the garage when prices drop and funds allow.  

[sharpener]

11 hours ago, G and J said:

I’m also planning to have two CUs, each separately fed from the cross connection point

 

If you want this kind of flexibility the Victron setup is ideal, you can connect your essential loads to AC Out 1 which is UPS and the rest to AC Out 2 which goes off when the grid fails. Is much better than the usual Chinese offerings which have a limited UPS capability, typically limited to 16A and designed for one emergency socket outlet only.

 

A future refinement to my system will be to replace the house bypass switch with a changeover contactor so if the Victron fails it will revert automatically to grid supply to keep the freezer router etc going if I am away and enable me to see what is what remotely.

 

Victron ESS with Solar PV Schematic.pdf

Edited August 26 by sharpener

[G and J]

6 hours ago, sharpener said:

 

If you want this kind of flexibility the Victron setup is ideal, you can connect your essential loads to AC Out 1 which is UPS and the rest to AC Out 2 which goes off when the grid fails. Is much better than the usual Chinese offerings which have a limited UPS capability, typically limited to 16A and designed for one emergency socket outlet only.

 

A future refinement to my system will be to replace the house bypass switch with a changeover contactor so if the Victron fails it will revert automatically to grid supply to keep the freezer router etc going if I am away and enable me to see what is what remotely.

 

Victron ESS with Solar PV Schematic.pdf 335.95 kB · 3 downloads

That looks fab.  I like Victron stuff, have used such in our vans and have great respect for it.   Will research….

 

But in the face of it that Victron unit will fit perfectly in my scheme!

[G and J]

Just now, G and J said:

That looks fab.  I like Victron stuff, have used such in our vans and have great respect for it.   Will research….

 

But in the face of it that Victron unit will fit perfectly in my scheme!

Except I’ll not have a dc connection to the battery. 

[sharpener]

6 hours ago, G and J said:

Except I’ll not have a dc connection to the battery. 

 

It's quite helpful to have some PV that is AC-connected and some DC. The AC can supply house loads up to 16A with maximal efficiency while the DC is more efficient at charging the battery (I have 3.68kW AC, and 3.24 DC limited slightly by roof space). Then the Victron inverter only needs to be rated at half the total power in order to convert the one into the other as loads dictate. (The 5kVA model is rated at 4.4kW continuous, however the DNO has restricted it to 3.68 though I am trying to get this lifted.)

 

So during the day once the battery is full it can invert the DC input to make more AC to charge the car at over 6kW. In winter it can charge the batteries at 3.5 kW so they will get fully charged in the 3-hr Octopus Cosy cheap rate window.

 

Also all the AC generation is channelled through the Victron so it can limit it to 16A which the DNOs like to hear, they are not so bothered about the DC side.

 

 

Edited August 26 by sharpener

[Dave Jones]

On 22/04/2024 at 11:54, CalvinHobbes said:

Hello, where could I find a copy of the paperwork that I need to submit to my electric provider to get the g98. The electrician will fill it in but he asked me to get the paperwork. I asked the guy at the power company in ni did he have to be mcs registered he said no. Roofers will mount them electrician will connect them. Just unsure how much to put up 5kw or 7kw.

 

whoever supplied you with the panels and inverters. 

[JohnMo]

On 25/08/2024 at 22:50, G and J said:

one to feed lights, MVHR, router, Wi-Fi and freezer, which can then be battery backed up, and the other for everything else.  My thinking is that the extra cable and second CU

Or a decent AC coupled battery will provide the whole house with electricity automatically. You don't even notice the mains power going. We get up 6kW continuously and up to 7kW for switching loads. It's a definite add it later option, can used normal string inverters, doesn't need hybrid.

[sharpener]

On 22/04/2024 at 11:54, CalvinHobbes said:

Hello, where could I find a copy of the paperwork that I need to submit to my electric provider to get the g98. The electrician will fill it in but he asked me to get the paperwork.

 

Discovered this process yesterday, you or the electrician would need to open an account as an installer. Don't know if it applies in NI though.

[G and J]

2 hours ago, sharpener said:

 

Discovered this process yesterday, you or the electrician would need to open an account as an installer. Don't know if it applies in NI though.

That looks rather brilliant.  Well done.

[Bramco]

4 hours ago, sharpener said:

Discovered this process yesterday, you or the electrician would need to open an account as an installer. Don't know if it applies in NI though.

Can someone pin that to the top of this section in the forum?  Maybe with a bit of explanation?

 

Simon

[trialuser]

On 22/04/2024 at 11:54, CalvinHobbes said:

Hello, where could I find a copy of the paperwork that I need to submit to my electric provider to get the g98. The electrician will fill it in but he asked me to get the paperwork. I asked the guy at the power company in ni did he have to be mcs registered he said no. Roofers will mount them electrician will connect them. Just unsure how much to put up 5kw or 7kw.

That's interesting, boils my piss, they make the rules up as they go.

SP energy networks (in Southern Scotland) have twice told me categorically that I must use an mcs accredited installer, the offer letter which details my export also states that.

I suppose it could be that mine was G99, has anyone else with G99 appproval been compelled to go MCS?

One other thing, I see there are lots of snazzy drawings in this thread. My DNO specifically asks fo a single line drawing, they are not interested in blue and brown lines representing line and neutral, or even pictures of the components, a labelled box will do.

 

Cheers.

Edited August 28 by trialuser
add a bit

[Dillsue]

No requirement for MCS with SPEN MANWEB when we submitted our G99 a couple of years ago.

 

Have you been discussing export payments with SP? It's the only reason I can see them directing you down the MCS route if you've told them you want to claim SEG??

[trialuser]

No, I said I was not fussed about how much export I was allowed. I won't get paid anyway as I've been waiting since Feb for Octopus to install a smart meter. They just keep saying no appointments available as a shortage of engineers. I chase them weekly. I intend to self use / store as much as I can.

[Dillsue]

9 hours ago, trialuser said:

No, I said I was not fussed about how much export I was allowed. I won't get paid anyway as I've been waiting since Feb for Octopus to install a smart meter. They just keep saying no appointments available as a shortage of engineers. I chase them weekly. I intend to self use / store as much as I can.

OK. Maybe let them know that their colleagues in the Prenton engineering office dont(didnt) ask for MCS, not even a mention of it!

[trialuser]

Yes thanks. I'm also on the hunt for more ammo if anyone has experience of this with SP energy networks. I believe they also are a DNO for some areas 'down South'.