Thought on initial quote

[Redoctober]

5 minutes ago, Zak S said:

Coming back to the question for me which is, does the quote sensible or does it need to be cut down and I personal think there is lot of slack in it.

 

You do need to go through the entire quote and actually ask the builder to explain / justify the prices he is prepared to charge -

 

example -  install only WC on ground floor (all sanitaryware suite and tiling supplied by client) - £2750 - Jeez - really!?

 

This project appears to be a massive undertaking with some sreious numbers involved and sadly time doesn't allow me to trawl through all the associated threads but have you considered a QS ? Failing that I suggest you really do find a way of "assessing" this quote as some of the figures are just out there!

[BotusBuild]

Zak,

I think the sincere opinion here is that quote is too high.

Only you, and your family, can decide on what you must have, what you would like to have, and what you can without in order to remove things ro reduce the cost.

Or, and what seems to be the considered best option, rebuild to the proposed footprint. It will be simpler for any builder and therfore be a better final product. It may cost a bit more to do, but extensions and additions are tricky and prone to introduce problems that you could  spend years rectifying.

Do yourselves a favour, look seriously at the demolish/ rebuild route

[Zak S]

@Russell griffithsother comparable on the block are as follows.

 

My design uses charred timber, aluminium shingle cladding but design is constrained by existing foot print of the banglow.

Edited March 27 by Zak S

[Zak S]

17 minutes ago, Redoctober said:

have you considered a QS ?

Yes once the planning has been granted then I would take to QS. We need to submit the planning within next few weeks.

Edited March 27 by Zak S

[Zak S]

Real life images for chared timber combined with brown timber and grey bricks to bring the design proposal to life.

 

The other options was grey weathered larch timber which is more subtle to the extent of being boring (images per below).

 

The architect has advised that I could use render on the side elevation rather than wrap around cladding.

Edited March 27 by Zak S

[Russell griffiths]

Talk to an estate agent and find out how much all those neighbours houses are worth, 

then show him the pics of your ideas, try to get a feel for the finished value. 
then go from there. 

[Zak S]

54 minutes ago, Russell griffiths said:

Talk to an estate agent and find out how much all those neighbours houses are worth, 

then show him the pics of your ideas, try to get a feel for the finished value. 
then go from there. 

Yes that has been done. Estate agent was quite keen and they currently marketing one in the image somewhere in Engalnd.

 

House with red van was sold a bit unfinished for 2.3m in 2022 and new owner spent around 200k finishing off. The traditional new built  houses are over £2.5m in today market. 

 

But I think value of the house is relevant if I want to sell. I don't want to sell but minimise the spend for highest value in return (yeah that million dollar question). In simple terms I can recover what I spend plus may be a bit more depending on how good the cost control and project management is.

 

https://theagents.properties/properties/sale/edwalton/nottingham/nottingham/

 

Edited March 27 by Zak S

[AppleDown]

I think the main question here is - what is your maximum actual budget, and then you build to that. It’s all well and good looking at the outside facade and finish, but that’s the least of your concerns.

[MR10]

I think a lot of the pricing is way out and by the time you tote up costings for the excluded items, you could easily add another £150k + VAT. This could easily turn out to be a money pit because once you start you just have to follow through and I suspect the builder may hit you with a premium for any unexpected surprises and any 'extras' such as fitting standard height (2.4m) insulated plasterboards !

You should get more quotes and a QS on board. Also, echoing what others have said, you may want to consider a demolish and rebuild.

 

[SBMS]

How about getting another quote to compare?

[Zak S]

35 minutes ago, AppleDown said:

I think the main question here is - what is your maximum actual budget, and then you build to that. It’s all well and good looking at the outside facade and finish, but that’s the least of your concerns.

That's one way to look at it. But they way I am looking at it is what is the least I have to spend but can build the said design with and the maximum value for money  (ie max return(output) for the minimum spend.)

Edited March 27 by Zak S

[Zak S]

16 minutes ago, SBMS said:

How about getting another quote to compare?

That's on the cards via QS but the some builder are wanting deposit for the quote. Also, will get some more quotes once the planning has come through to have a bit more certainty. 

[Zak S]

23 minutes ago, MR10 said:

I suspect the builder may hit you with a premium for any unexpected surprises and any 'extras' such as fitting standard height (2.4m) insulated plasterboards !

Totally get that hence need to do all to avoid and lock things in hence more time spending planning. 

 

I think the quote per the tender is 150k overpriced so I think with exclusions added back it should be round about that price or I am still quite off the right number?

Edited March 27 by Zak S

[Zak S]

24 minutes ago, MR10 said:

demolish and rebuild

That would defo be 800+ if not closer to million.

[SBMS]

17 minutes ago, Zak S said:

That's on the cards via QS but the some builder are wanting deposit for the quote. Also, will get some more quotes once the planning has come through to have a bit more certainty. 

Are they quoting from planning drawings or full building drawings?

[Zak S]

1 minute ago, SBMS said:

Are they quoting from planning drawings or full building drawings?

They would prefer the building drawing but it might take few months fo get to that so I am planning to use planning drawings/cad layouts

[SBMS]

14 minutes ago, Zak S said:

They would prefer the building drawing but it might take few months fo get to that so I am planning to use planning drawings/cad layouts

Got you. It’s probably not the worst idea to get ballparks but just be mindful that once you get your building regs drawings and there are steel sizes etc if you have any that the builder may need to ‘revise’ their quote. This might also be why builders are asking for money to quote (none of ours did). They might think it’s very speculative not quoting to regs drawings. Most we spoke to refused to quote from planning and said they needed the full detail to quote accurately. 

[torre]

8 hours ago, Zak S said:

But the architect advised that with steel frame and extension the cost can be saved with extension and remodel.

 

I like elements of your design and you sound very committed to renovation but the VAT saving on knock down and rebuild for a project this size would be substantial and, as others have said, simplify any build. It would probably be easier to get builders to quote for and those quotes might be more reliable too. Are you sure you've explored that option fully?

[Zak S]

11 minutes ago, torre said:

 

I like elements of your design and you sound very committed to renovation but the VAT saving on knock down and rebuild for a project this size would be substantial and, as others have said, simplify any build. It would probably be easier to get builders to quote for and those quotes might be more reliable too. Are you sure you've explored that option fully?

The extension/remodel can be done in stages where as there are other hurdles to the rebuild like remortgaging will likely incur significant Early Payment Charge plus loss in terms of moving to higher interest rates.

 

Rebuild will have higher finance cost which will outweigh the VAT savings.

Edited March 27 by Zak S

[Russell griffiths]

The other thing to consider is get planning for a demo and rebuild and sell it, go and buy another rough one and do the same until your happy you have the funds to do it yourself. 
 

or forget that quote and build one of the extensions, wait a bit and build another then take the roof off and go up. 
will take 5 years of living in a building site, but by employing smaller builders you could probably split the financing up a bit. 
sell it, all the while keeping your eye out for another cheap one in the same area. 

[Zak S]

1 hour ago, Russell griffiths said:

build one of the extensions, wait a bit and build another then take the roof off and go up. 

That's one of the options, though with slight amendment: 

 

Build the super structure and do the internal fitout/remodel/cladding in stages. All employing different trade rather than turn key builder:

 

Stage 1

1. Piling to support the steel frame (am I right in assuming in this case only steel column need piling so number of piles required will be lesser) 20k

2. Underpinning the section of walls which are being retained (left hand external wall c15m) 15k

3. Steel frame installation 40k

4. Building of external walls 10k including insulation

5. Roof build (including dormers) with Spanish/chinese slates 45k

6. Windows 30k

7. Moving the boiler/tank plus cold and hot water run to all floors 10k

8. Electricity first fix 6k

9. Timber joists for flooring upstairs 10k

10. Contingency 20k

 

Stage 2 (Cost TBC)

1. Tiling and skimming

2. Bathrooms second fix 

3. Electricity second fix

4. Stairs

5. Remodel internal walls

6. flooring screed

7. Underfloor heating

8. Cladding

9. Landscaping

10. Garden room

11. Automation

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[saveasteading]

7 minutes ago, Zak S said:

am I right in assuming in this case only steel column need piling so number of piles required will be lesser)

Excuse that i haven't read the previous discussion but I saw this.

 

Usually a whole building needs piling or it doesn't. It depends on the ground of course.,  columns have very high concenteted loads. Walls are heavy too. Then there is the floor which has a lighter load. They must all stay put relative to each other.

 

But you say underpinning the existing. So the ground is solid 2m or so down? Why pile?

 

Piling some and underpinning some will risk differential movement.

 

This isn't to be dabbled with and needs an SE. Excuse me if that's already covered in the duscusson.

 

Also,  a turnkey  builder will add 20 to 30% for the management and risk. Diy saves that but will be a full time job for you, plus all the risk. It's my skill set but i still add 5 to 10% for contingencies. 

[Zak S]

27 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

But you say underpinning the existing. So the ground is solid 2m or so down? Why pile?

 

Piling some and underpinning some will risk differential movement.

 

This isn't to be dabbled with and needs an SE. Excuse me if that's already covered in the duscusson.

Very good points. The ground condition is very bad. SI report suggested 11m piles. We have had discussion around Vibro but both piling and VIBRO will require site clearing. Piling less so. 

 

SE has been engaged and his view was that building around the house to spread the load is one option. I have not discussed yet the steel framing and how that can help weight distribution and reduce the need for piling within the house perimeters and how retaining one wall with underpinning will impact. That conversation will happen  post planning approval.

 

One question I had in my mind how do we distribute the weight away from the wall we are retaining (if possible). If not possible then can the underpinning in bad ground condition is an option and how would that work?

Edited March 28 by Zak S

[saveasteading]

On very loose ground I favour vibro. The main attractions are the flexibility of spacing and that the ground is being strengthened rather than the building going on stilts.

It saves on reinforced edge and cross beams too.

 

If the design allows , I would have a link between the 2 parts  like a railway carriage has, to let any movement cause least effect.

[Zak S]

1 hour ago, saveasteading said:

If the design allows , I would have a link between the 2 parts  like a railway carriage has, to let any movement cause least effect.

Very interested in this and would like to understand a bit more as to what it means and how to create this?

 

Would VIBRO be an option for the existing property once the roof is removed? With vibro main expense is the initial set up cost but I was not sure if VIBRO could be an option for remodel and extension?

Edited March 28 by Zak S