MBC Timber frame prices

[SBMS]

For anyone that got quotes or went with MBC timber frame - what was your average price per sqm? Did it include their insulated slab?

 

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Apologies for double posting I don’t know how to move it from general to here..

[nod]

Never seem to get the M2 price for TF

 wry expensive compared to solids 

[saveasteading]

From quotes we got 2 years ago, and not used, i think it was about £1100/m2 for the basic shell. 

[SBMS]

1 hour ago, saveasteading said:

From quotes we got 2 years ago, and not used, i think it was about £1100/m2 for the basic shell. 

Thanks - what size sqm was your build?

[saveasteading]

I can't remember. We ditched the site.

That number is from distant memory. I was kind of hoping that any answer would provoke some more from projects that went ahead.

[SBMS]

6 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

I can't remember. We ditched the site.

That number is from distant memory. I was kind of hoping that any answer would provoke some more from projects that went ahead.

Thanks. I got a number of about 700 from another group. Be interesting to see what other members got though. 

[JohnMo]

1 minute ago, SBMS said:

got a number of about 700 from another grou

Why not just get a quote from MBC, instead of going around different groups, what ever answer you get, will not be the same answer given for your design.

[SBMS]

1 hour ago, JohnMo said:

Why not just get a quote from MBC, instead of going around different groups, what ever answer you get, will not be the same answer given for your design.

Am just investigating different methods of construction. Appreciate the answer isn’t exact just wondered if there’s a range. 

[saveasteading]

1 hour ago, SBMS said:

investigating different methods of construction.

I think that is wise. I've said before that I once assessed a 3 storey building 5 ways. The best way was a kit from a nearby supplier, who were sending out 3 houses a day to a developer. 

It wouldn't always be so.

But on our recent private project we did stick build.

The decision will depend on a lot of variables.

 

Plus, the kit builders are rightly wary of providing endless free quotes for speculative projects, so BH actual experiences would be great.

[TerryE]

@SBMS  It is difficult to do an apples and oranges comparison here.  The fact that a lot of members including me chose the MBC route means that it can be an excellent price for a given set of circumstances.  The best thing is to talk to the vendor direct

 

In my case I felt that MBC offered a pretty well rounded passive offering: custom slab and TF design including fabrication and onsite construction.  The MBC design and the construction guys onsite really understood the implications and detail of building to passive class.  You can be confident in getting a complete airtight (say to 0.4 ACH) and well insulated build -- all in one package.  Yes, you could multi-source and reduce the nominal costs, but only then to find that you need to take on a lot more detailing yourself to hit the as-designed spec.

 

As point of reference we have a natural hand-dressed stone skin on our house (to comply with Local Planning requirements); the materials and labour for this cost us as much as our MBC bill.

 

Edited March 17 by TerryE

[Iceverge]

The MBC package is the most complete one I know of. It's really well though out. 

 

The only bits I'm a little iffy about is the sparse window and threshold details. 

 

 

[SBMS]

46 minutes ago, TerryE said:

@SBMS  It is difficult to do an apples and oranges comparison here.  The fact that a lot of members including me chose the MBC route means that it can be an excellent price for a given set of circumstances.  The best thing is to talk to the vendor direct

 

In my case I felt that MBC offered a pretty well rounded passive offering: custom slab and TF design including fabrication and onsite construction.  The MBC design and the construction guys onsite really understood the implications and detail of building to passive class.  You can be confident in getting a complete airtight (say to 0.4 ACH) and well insulated build -- all in one package.  Yes, you could multi-source and reduce the nominal costs, but only then to find that you need to take on a lot more detailing yourself to hit the as-designed spec.

 

As point of reference we have a natural hand-dressed stone skin on our house (to comply with Local Planning requirements); the materials and labour for this cost us as much as our MBC bill.

 

Do you care to share your MBC cost?

[Adrian Walker]

Per sqm is never a good way to price any job, too many variables IMHO

[SBMS]

1 minute ago, Adrian Walker said:

Per sqm is never a good way to price any job, too many variables IMHO

I wonder if this is true just for superstructure sqm prices? Granted a finished sqm price for a build is impossible due to internal finish, but I'm not sure there's a huge deviation in superstructure pricing for two TF builds that are of similar size and shape.

 

Also, am not trying to price the job, just trying to get a feel for past builders' costs for TF

[Iceverge]

€514/M2 plus vat in 2019 for a 2 story completely rectangular house without no big windows and a hipped roof. This was the twin wall frame and raft. 

 

Probably completely meaningless 5 years later however. 

 

 

[Adrian Walker]

31 minutes ago, SBMS said:

I wonder if this is true just for superstructure sqm prices? Granted a finished sqm price for a build is impossible due to internal finish, but I'm not sure there's a huge deviation in superstructure pricing for two TF builds that are of similar size and shape.

 

Also, am not trying to price the job, just trying to get a feel for past builders' costs for TF

You can get a price for the square area of the walls themselves, just not the square area of the building footprint. 

[WisteriaMews]

I received some quotes before Christmas from 3 frame suppliers, including MBC, and the average was £800 per m2. The advice I got is that these were initial quotes and when you got into the detail of adding the necessary structural elements (e.g. the odd steel) it would nudge up a bit.

[SBMS]

20 minutes ago, WisteriaMews said:

I received some quotes before Christmas from 3 frame suppliers, including MBC, and the average was £800 per m2. The advice I got is that these were initial quotes and when you got into the detail of adding the necessary structural elements (e.g. the odd steel) it would nudge up a bit.

Do the TF companies quote from building regs drawings or can they do it from stage 1 drawings?

[Buzz]

57 minutes ago, SBMS said:

Also, am not trying to price the job, just trying to get a feel for past builders' costs for TF

Hi @SBMS when i was going through this process i contacted 4 TF company's and sent over our plans for pricing, MBC , Fleming, Solo and English Brothers.

MBC had the best product and a comprehensive list of what was included and what was not , they were as you would expect for the best product the most expensive at 120k for the passive frame and another 60k for the raft .

Fleming were 90k but not passive spec , they came across as a decent company to do business with but with every step closer to signing with them the price just kept getting going up ,I expected a small uplift as the final details were added but from memory it went from 60k ish to 90k pretty quickly. 

Solo ended up around 60k but got the feeling that I wouldn't be happy with them,  no idea why I thought this just had that feeling if know what I mean. 

English Brothers ended up at 68k and if I had have gone down the TF route these are the ones I would have brought from , liked the owner Jay and even had a tour of the factory and had a brew with some of his team, came across as I nice family business. 

I did contact all of them to let them know i wouldn't be using them for our build and did get a call back from Fleming and English Brothers to see how I was getting on which was nice, I asked them how was the timber frame business was doing as timber prices were at this point were going through the roof and they both said 30% more expensive now than when they priced my job and only going one way. 

They all priced our plans around 3 years ago MBC were the only ones who I didn't have anymore contact with after the 1st round of pricing so don't really know how much the price would have gone up from the original quote , but by far the best TF product I saw if you can afford it .

[SBMS]

36 minutes ago, Buzz said:

Hi @SBMS when i was going through this process i contacted 4 TF company's and sent over our plans for pricing, MBC , Fleming, Solo and English Brothers.

MBC had the best product and a comprehensive list of what was included and what was not , they were as you would expect for the best product the most expensive at 120k for the passive frame and another 60k for the raft .

Fleming were 90k but not passive spec , they came across as a decent company to do business with but with every step closer to signing with them the price just kept getting going up ,I expected a small uplift as the final details were added but from memory it went from 60k ish to 90k pretty quickly. 

Solo ended up around 60k but got the feeling that I wouldn't be happy with them,  no idea why I thought this just had that feeling if know what I mean. 

English Brothers ended up at 68k and if I had have gone down the TF route these are the ones I would have brought from , liked the owner Jay and even had a tour of the factory and had a brew with some of his team, came across as I nice family business. 

I did contact all of them to let them know i wouldn't be using them for our build and did get a call back from Fleming and English Brothers to see how I was getting on which was nice, I asked them how was the timber frame business was doing as timber prices were at this point were going through the roof and they both said 30% more expensive now than when they priced my job and only going one way. 

They all priced our plans around 3 years ago MBC were the only ones who I didn't have anymore contact with after the 1st round of pricing so don't really know how much the price would have gone up from the original quote , but by far the best TF product I saw if you can afford it .

Thanks @Buzz for comprehensive answer that’s really useful. Two questions - what was your house size and why didn’t you go TF in the end?

[Buzz]

8 minutes ago, SBMS said:

Thanks @Buzz for comprehensive answer that’s really useful. Two questions - what was your house size and why didn’t you go TF in the end?

The size for the house seems to be open to interpretation as to how you measure a house ! The architect has it at 365m2 the builder has it at 420m2 , when I questioned this the architect said he  did not include the integral garage and only counts the internal floor area left after all the walls are in , the builder counts the total floor area to get his m2 number ,I did mention to the builder that the architect does not include the garage in his m2 and his reply was ,well they ain't f@!*ing free.

The only reason for not using TF was cost , they worked out so much more expensive than brick and block on our build, May not be the case for everyone or you. 

[SBMS]

9 minutes ago, Buzz said:

The size for the house seems to be open to interpretation as to how you measure a house ! The architect has it at 365m2 the builder has it at 420m2 , when I questioned this the architect said he  did not include the integral garage and only counts the internal floor area left after all the walls are in , the builder counts the total floor area to get his m2 number ,I did mention to the builder that the architect does not include the garage in his m2 and his reply was ,well they ain't f@!*ing free.

The only reason for not using TF was cost , they worked out so much more expensive than brick and block on our build, May not be the case for everyone or you. 

Fair enough! What insulation did you use on your brick and block? I'm guessing you didn't try and get to passivhaus standards for it, or did you?

[Buzz]

8 minutes ago, SBMS said:

Fair enough! What insulation did you use on your brick and block? I'm guessing you didn't try and get to passivhaus standards for it, or did you?

Didn't aim for passive standards but didn't want B regs either, so ended up with 150 mm full fill in the walls for a u-value of .17 ,175mm in the floor , but the roof was more complex due to fact that we have 300m2 on the ground floor and only 120m2 upstairs (room in roof) and 100m2 of vaulted ceilings but achieved .11 using a mixture of pir and rafter roll in various configurations .

To get a lower value on the walls would have been quite simple buy using insulated plaserboard but we were happy with what we had . Are you looking to build to passive standards? 

[SBMS]

49 minutes ago, Buzz said:

Didn't aim for passive standards but didn't want B regs either, so ended up with 150 mm full fill in the walls for a u-value of .17 ,175mm in the floor , but the roof was more complex due to fact that we have 300m2 on the ground floor and only 120m2 upstairs (room in roof) and 100m2 of vaulted ceilings but achieved .11 using a mixture of pir and rafter roll in various configurations .

To get a lower value on the walls would have been quite simple buy using insulated plaserboard but we were happy with what we had . Are you looking to build to passive standards? 

We’re early days and looking at all options but are steering more towards passive standards. Last build was block and brick and ACH achieved wasn’t the best. Also difficult getting trades to understand the detail and quality required for passive standards but the TF erectors (MBC at least) seem to understand it a lot more. 

[TerryE]

6 hours ago, SBMS said:

Do you care to share your MBC cost?

Meaningless.  I did my build in 2016.  What's the value of knowing the price of 6 apples in 2016 if you want a dozen Clementines starting later this year. 

 

As I said our local stone skin cost me more than the TF + Slab + design + all engineering calcs for the BInsp.