Pocster Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 These bloody ‘smart’ switches ! So the dumb switch currently installed just has 2 lives . I *assume* this new switch doesn’t need neutral ? ( but diagram suggests it does ) So where do I put the other live ? . In the neutral slot or P ? ( what’s P refer to ? , why’s neutral not got a nice N on it ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted February 21 Author Share Posted February 21 (edited) Right P must be power. So no neutral required , erm.... yeah I'll try that. Live to P and L ThinkI'll wait for advice! Edited February 21 by Pocster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 What do you mean your switch has "2 lives" is it part of 2 way switching? L loop through? Post a picture of your existing switch as wired. That smart switch does not need a N just L in and switched L out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted February 21 Author Share Posted February 21 4 minutes ago, ProDave said: What do you mean your switch has "2 lives" is it part of 2 way switching? L loop through? Post a picture of your existing switch as wired. That smart switch does not need a N just L in and switched L out. Sorry; what I meant is current switch is a simple affair i.e. 2 brown lives that complete in the switch - there is a neutral but it's not used. This new switch has a L but also a P and "squiggle" symbol. So which of those is L out? ; think that's what I'm asking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 Your new switch L is L in, and squigle is switched L out. P is for interconnecting multiple pushbuttons, I suspect you are not using that function so ignore it. Your challenge now is which of your 2 brown wires is the L in and which is the L out. You will need some kind of tester to determine that, multimeter or some form of voltage tester. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted February 21 Author Share Posted February 21 (edited) 7 minutes ago, ProDave said: Your new switch L is L in, and squigle is switched L out. P is for interconnecting multiple pushbuttons, I suspect you are not using that function so ignore it. Your challenge now is which of your 2 brown wires is the L in and which is the L out. You will need some kind of tester to determine that, multimeter or some form of voltage tester. Ok . So squiggle is L out . If I get them round the wrong way ; what will happen ? 🙄. Do I test each L against the neutral to determine which is which ? ( out of my limited knowledge depth here ) . edit: with power off ! Edited February 21 by Pocster Bang ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bramco Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 11 minutes ago, ProDave said: Your challenge now is which of your 2 brown wires is the L in and which is the L out. You will need some kind of tester to determine that, multimeter or some form of voltage tester. One brown wire should go into a hole marked com or something like that on the old switch and the other into a hole marked 1. The one in com is the live. Often there is one hole on it's own on a switch and 2 others side by side. The one on it's own which should be marked com or L is the live one. But be careful. Simon 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bramco Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 14 minutes ago, Pocster said: If I get them round the wrong way ; what will happen ? Also, if you get them wrong way round, the new switch may not work as it won't have a live going in. But maybe you'll test that hypothesis for us ;-D Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted February 21 Author Share Posted February 21 Just now, Bramco said: Also, if you get them wrong way round, the new switch may not work as it won't have a live going in. But maybe you'll test that hypothesis for us ;-D Simon I don't mind it not working if I get it round the wrong way. But will something go bang and I shit myself? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted February 21 Author Share Posted February 21 (edited) I'm still confused on the no neutral thing (I didn't realise this switch didn't need a neutral ). With no neutral and the switch off it won't be powered and therefore surely can't report or be controlled via Zigbee? But if neutral is connected ( where too? ) then it is 'powered' and so acts like a smart switch correctly? No understand. Switch is neutral free. Destructions show neutral connected to squiggle ( why a squiggle?; what's it meant to represent - not seen that before ). - confusion hate electrics - so dangerous.. I might send it back Edited February 21 by Pocster updating my will Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted February 21 Author Share Posted February 21 Never understood why british standards don't have Live (i.e. powered as opposed to live to light ) marked on the cable. Lots of Pocster's have probably died attempting such things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted February 21 Author Share Posted February 21 15 minutes ago, Bramco said: But be careful. Don't like it when people say that..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted February 21 Author Share Posted February 21 Current switch as is... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markc Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 If there is a big bang and all the lights go out - something isn’t right 😉 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 The live in is the one at the bottom of that picture (com). I am old school, don’t understand smart switches 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markc Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 (edited) You need to determine which of the browns is live, with light off test each against neutral or earth .. with a meter or tester, not by shorting! As Joe says, it should be bottom one but not necessarily Edited February 21 by markc 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 https://www.screwfix.com/p/c-k-maintester-vde-screwdriver-120-250v-ac-slotted-3-5mm-x-100mm/5636x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted February 21 Author Share Posted February 21 (expletive deleted) it . 50/50 chance . I’ll just wire “ as I see fit “ ( said that to a judge once when I was caught with scrotum clips to a car battery in the local park ) . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 just buy the fecking screwdriver and test it!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 You like a gadget, buy a volt stick: https://www.screwfix.com/p/fluke-ac-non-contact-voltage-detector-pen-1000v-ac/85949 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted February 21 Author Share Posted February 21 7 minutes ago, Onoff said: You like a gadget, buy a volt stick: https://www.screwfix.com/p/fluke-ac-non-contact-voltage-detector-pen-1000v-ac/85949 1 hour ago, joe90 said: just buy the fecking screwdriver and test it!!!! Nah ! That’s for pussies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 Don't assume the one in COM is L feed. There is an equal argument for putting L feed into L1 for 1 way switching. The switch probably works by harvesting a tiny amount of power through the L-Sw connection and a tiny current passing through the "off" light. In which case it probably does not know and will probably work either way. But really, it makes me shudder anyone doing ANYTHING on electrics without something to test for live, or more important test for dead. I am old school (and some will flame me) but I have a motto "Never touch anything that my neon screwdriver has not touched first. If you really must use a volt stick instead, then make SURE every use you test your volt stick on a known live wire. The other mantra is "test your tester, test for dead, test your tester again. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted February 21 Author Share Posted February 21 19 minutes ago, ProDave said: Don't assume the one in COM is L feed. There is an equal argument for putting L feed into L1 for 1 way switching. The switch probably works by harvesting a tiny amount of power through the L-Sw connection and a tiny current passing through the "off" light. In which case it probably does not know and will probably work either way. But really, it makes me shudder anyone doing ANYTHING on electrics without something to test for live, or more important test for dead. I am old school (and some will flame me) but I have a motto "Never touch anything that my neon screwdriver has not touched first. If you really must use a volt stick instead, then make SURE every use you test your volt stick on a known live wire. The other mantra is "test your tester, test for dead, test your tester again. Ok . I listen to your point - I really do ! How should I test each “ live “ to see which it is . Preferably with circuit off ; or is that not possible ?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 1 minute ago, Pocster said: Ok . I listen to your point - I really do ! How should I test each “ live “ to see which it is . Preferably with circuit off ; or is that not possible ?. Circuit off both L wires out of the switch R1+R2 test. I bet that you stumped. So with circuit off, connect ONE of the brown wires to earth at the switch, go to the consumer unit and measure resistance from the (isolated) circuit L to E If you get a very low reading, then the brown you have joined to E is the feed. Then go and swap over so the other one is connected to E at the switch (and the first one floating) and see what the resistance L to E is at the consumer unit. Whichever one when connected to E gives the very low ohms reading is the feed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted February 21 Author Share Posted February 21 4 minutes ago, ProDave said: Circuit off both L wires out of the switch R1+R2 test. I bet that you stumped. So with circuit off, connect ONE of the brown wires to earth at the switch, go to the consumer unit and measure resistance from the (isolated) circuit L to E If you get a very low reading, then the brown you have joined to E is the feed. Then go and swap over so the other one is connected to E at the switch (and the first one floating) and see what the resistance L to E is at the consumer unit. Whichever one when connected to E gives the very low ohms reading is the feed. Yeah ; as I’m out my depth completely I won’t be doing any of that . Whats the worst that can happen getting Live round the wrong way ? 🙄😫 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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