Amateur bob Posted February 6 Author Share Posted February 6 14 hours ago, saveasteading said: Its not a specially technical job. There is a right level to ensure for the inlet, make sure the unit is level, push in the inlet pipe. The exit pipe is then at the right level and you carry on to soakaway. Then there's a burp pipe and a cable. From talking to the jcb driver who lifted ours in, it was clear that he'd never seen anyone use a site level or spirit level on one, or a drainage field and he'd probably put in 30 he thought. Seems to me you need a groundworker that does what you tell them, because they don't know a lot. BTW the one we sacked didn't look at our designed gradients and went too steep then told me I was wrong. Grrr. Fortunately he only did a few m of rainwater pipe. That gets expensive if your entire run and tank is too deep. ah i see well i have a digger on the farm so could mabye attempt it, my only concern was if i hit water table when putting it in the n t could get trivky, also does it need to be set on a concrete pad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 Just now, Amateur bob said: does it need to be set on a concrete pad? Some do. Some are on gravel. If you are in a high water table area then it also needs to be held down. Mostly this is by concrete surround but tying down to a base slab is sometimes possible......I suggest you look at one or more technical details. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amateur bob Posted February 6 Author Share Posted February 6 12 hours ago, Crunchynut said: My Learning points in case they help (sorry - order is a bit random). -As others have said - definitely an air blower system with no moving parts to go wrong in the tank. -Take a look at building regs - Part H I believe - has some good guidance best not ignored, and good for you to know so that you know a contractor is doing it right. -Install it in the summer when the ground water is low - a flooded hole or caving sides is a headache you can do without. -Make sure concrete is semi dry - if it’s too wet it will put too much pressure on the tank walls as it slumps. I mention this because concrete suppliers are a mixed bunch and sometimes you get what they bring, regardless of what you asked for. Also they don’t like semi-dry cos it’s a heavier load for their mixer to churn and wears the gearbox out. At least that’s what my concrete delivery guy told me (in a grumpy manner). -I reckon all these systems need a bit of tlc from time to time. For that reason I chose a Vortex because the access is via a large lid, whereas some other systems seemed to have a smaller hatch. I also chose a low invert depth model which meant pipe work and adjustments were all near the surface and in easy reach. Invert depth may be dictated by site levels, of course. -Put plenty of concrete round it. The installation instructions will probably say minimum advised concrete back fill based on ground water because they want their systems installed cost to appear low, and a contractor may also want to get away with minimal concrete. But - if you have to empty it in the middle of winter when ground water is high you don’t want to be worrying about it floating out of the ground because you skimped on a couple of hundred £ worth of concrete. ok thanks im hearing a lot of support for the vortex ill need to price one, would it be able to reduce emissions to the level of the klarg as quoted earlier? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amateur bob Posted February 6 Author Share Posted February 6 1 minute ago, saveasteading said: Some do. Some are on gravel. If you are in a high water table area then it also needs to be held down. Mostly this is by concrete surround but tying down to a base slab is sometimes possible......I suggest you look at one or more technical details. how would you know if you are a high water table area before you dig out of interest? the klargester has anchors either side you can concrete in i think, the other makes must have something similar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 No you may not know till holes are dug on site, mine was high so had to backfill with dry ish concrete. Pretty standard procedure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 With diy or a helpful worker you can progressively surround with concrete/gravel/earth. A less sympathetic installation will end up with a lot of gravel and concrete used, and a pile of earth. Cheaper to avoid floating is bolting down or strapping down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crispy_wafer Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 I purchased rewatec unit, used travis Perkins, the delivery was on the back of a merc sprinter type flatbed. Direct from a yard up County Durham way (I think)…. We slid the unit off on some ramps that they bought with them. No need for the digger or crane - which I was fretting over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 1 minute ago, crispy_wafer said: No need for the digger or crane Same with ours. 250kg slid off trailer ramp. Easy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kandgmitchell Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 And they really can float upwards. Years ago I was working in the Daventry area of Northants and a colleague came back into the office and told us all that we ought to see the "submarine" on a building plot in a local village. Passing that way over the next few days (I think we all did that route) there was a large cesspool tank that had forced itself back out of the ground and stood like something Jaques Cousteau would use for all the world to see. More concrete and partial filling with water to ballast it was called for. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crispy_wafer Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 My install - not that detailed but you’ll get the general gist. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 11 hours ago, ProDave said: They flatly refused. And quite right on reflection. They're not insured for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amateur bob Posted February 6 Author Share Posted February 6 2 hours ago, crispy_wafer said: My install - not that detailed but you’ll get the general gist. i found that very interesting did you not need to lay an electric cable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amateur bob Posted February 6 Author Share Posted February 6 3 hours ago, saveasteading said: With diy or a helpful worker you can progressively surround with concrete/gravel/earth. A less sympathetic installation will end up with a lot of gravel and concrete used, and a pile of earth. Cheaper to avoid floating is bolting down or strapping down. ah so i dont actually need a concrete base then just concrete the anchors? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crispy_wafer Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 I guess it depends on the ground water situation and what the manufacturers instructions say, I only a used concrete base and a complete concrete surround, just so it created a heavy tomb only because we have high water during winter, although simple answer to that is to leave it full and only de sludge in the summer. I might of gone a bit overboard tbh, who knows 🤷🏼♂️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 2 minutes ago, Amateur bob said: dont actually need a concrete base then just concrete the anchors? So many variables, I can't answer that. I've had a look at vortex and Marsh. One has lugs, the other an integrated lip. I've got another project coming up hence my renewed interest. Depth of dig is a major factor, simply as good practice. More so if water table is an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amateur bob Posted February 6 Author Share Posted February 6 so what are the pros and cons of vortex v klargester for anyone that knows? ive bn told its easier to maintain which is a big consideration less moving parts, anything else? ease of installation, price? thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crispy_wafer Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 Cant answer that but try to look forwards and factor the annual running costs, might be more capital up front but lower running costs or vice versa, look at length of warranty, not that it means a lot these days, but might indicate a level of trust in their product by the manufacturer. As you’ve picked up, just stay well away from mechanical parts in a poo tank. Have a look at the bioficient if you are set on klargester. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 15 minutes ago, Amateur bob said: pros and cons of vortex v klargester for anyone that knows? Easy. Klargester has a mechanical wheel that lifts, mixes and aerates the sludge. Very good at breaking down the stuff. But it's a mechanical thing that needs maintenance and apparently breaks down sometimes. Vortex and others have a simple air pump like in a fish tank. If it wears out, then its easy to fix or repair. Similar quality at outlet stage, which of course the law requires. BTW if the chamber is a 3 chamber process, then it will continue to do the job, just not so well, until fixed. I'm going to compare Vortex ( as it's recommended by several) with Marsh (which I know to be good). The outlet figures are both good, so it will be other factors. Cost (purchase and as complete), size, base etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 My vortex had a flat base so no concrete underneath it, backfilled with dry concrete mix because of a high water table, (filled with water when backfilling to create equal pressure) sampling chamber included, dead easy to adjust air flow to match usage, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorfun Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 1 hour ago, Amateur bob said: ah so i dont actually need a concrete base then just concrete the anchors? i would suggest following the MI for whichever STP you go for. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorfun Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 we went for a Graf one2clean. i liked the shape so was a shallower dig and easier to ensure it was level. also had good reviews and i liked the way the pump was remotely located from the tank as other people mentioned the ones with the pump in the top of the tank were a bit noisy. there are lots out there @Amateur bob, not just Vortex and Klargester. do LOTS of research (i think i read almost every post in the sub-forum) and decide what works best for you for price, install, running, emptying etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amateur bob Posted February 6 Author Share Posted February 6 3 hours ago, saveasteading said: Easy. Klargester has a mechanical wheel that lifts, mixes and aerates the sludge. Very good at breaking down the stuff. But it's a mechanical thing that needs maintenance and apparently breaks down sometimes. Vortex and others have a simple air pump like in a fish tank. If it wears out, then its easy to fix or repair. Similar quality at outlet stage, which of course the law requires. BTW if the chamber is a 3 chamber process, then it will continue to do the job, just not so well, until fixed. I'm going to compare Vortex ( as it's recommended by several) with Marsh (which I know to be good). The outlet figures are both good, so it will be other factors. Cost (purchase and as complete), size, base etc. interesting, which one has a 3 chamber process? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amateur bob Posted February 6 Author Share Posted February 6 3 hours ago, Thorfun said: we went for a Graf one2clean. i liked the shape so was a shallower dig and easier to ensure it was level. also had good reviews and i liked the way the pump was remotely located from the tank as other people mentioned the ones with the pump in the top of the tank were a bit noisy. there are lots out there @Amateur bob, not just Vortex and Klargester. do LOTS of research (i think i read almost every post in the sub-forum) and decide what works best for you for price, install, running, emptying etc. ok thanks what put you off the vortex? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 I concreted my conder in, you gradually pour the concrete at the same time gradually filling it with water so the water is about as high inside the tank as the concrete is outside it. I was wrongly advised by the installer in our previous house who just back filled the septic tank with gravel. That house now has a tank that you can only pump out in the middle of a summer dry spell, and then refill with water PDQ. To pump it out in winter would be asking for it to float out of the ground. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 10 minutes ago, ProDave said: you gradually pour the concrete at the same time gradually filling it with water so the water is about as high inside the tank If the hole is tightly dug, that is fine. If not, it can be a lot of concrete. This detail can follow as it isn't urgent. Way back, Conder and Klargester were the options. One of them became the generic name through more extensive marketing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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