Adsibob Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 (edited) A few people mentioning this on the forum. Went for a surf on the interweb to check it out, hoping to find some informative articles to better educate myself so I can follow the thread I started on the intricacies of my own heating system, but ended up getting sucked in to what must be a sales pitch to spend money on a a design service. Two questions: 1) is Heatgeek.com any good for learning enough about heating engineering to not get scammed by an engineer; and 2) which of these: is most similar to my house, given I took a 3bed 1930s semi, chopped the back and top off it, added a new roof and loft conversion and 2 storey rear extension and covered the whole thing in about 40mm of K7 EWI plus silicone render. Is the average of a 1930s house plus a 2020s house, a 1975 house? Edited February 3 by Adsibob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 5 hours ago, Adsibob said: is Heatgeek.com any good for learning enough about heating engineering to not get scammed by an engineer Probably. They seem to know what they are doing and understand the technology. 5 hours ago, Adsibob said: which of these Work out the weighted mean of the building regs each part is built to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyT Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 just buy the CIBSE domestic heating design guide for £20 or something had all the same info.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S2D2 Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 The upgrades part of the site is for an ASHP Install quote, if you just want information from their articles try https://www.heatgeek.com/category/knowledge/ or their YouTube channel https://youtube.com/@HeatGeek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone West Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 8 hours ago, Adsibob said: is Heatgeek.com any good for learning enough about heating engineering to not get scammed by an engineer Ovo Energy use Heatgeek as the supplier and installer of their ASHPs scheme. So I would be surprised if they tried to scam you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 1 hour ago, TonyT said: just buy the CIBSE domestic heating design guide for £20 or something had all the same info.. Is this it? domestic-heating-design-guide.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyT Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 (edited) Thats the old one, new one is something like 225 pages. Covers all the heat geek stuff as no doubt they are one in the same just in more bite size portions Edited February 4 by TonyT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradders3109 Posted Friday at 04:58 Share Posted Friday at 04:58 (edited) Are heat geek any good? After watching many you tube videos heat geek and Adam in particular clearly understand the complexities of heat pump installation and how to get the best from an install. I completely bought into the heat geek sales pitch. This is my experience. In may 2024 I had the heat geek heat loss survey completed and was very impressed with the process. The results were as below: I was then quoted for a recommended install as follows: I then pointed out to the installer that no radiators were required and could these costs be removed from the quote. I also queried what sundries came to £2622 since big ticket items are itemised and I had already installed the heat pump base and underfloor heating. After refusing to remove the radiator costs, trying to justify them as "other work" and no satisfactory explanation of the sundries I contacted heat geek to explain my frustration and to cancel the contract. I was assured that heat geek were sympathetic with my experience and they requested that I didn't cancel the contract and they would allocate a new heat geek installer and start the process again. I agreed to this. At the beginning of this week I had the new heat geek installer complete his survey and the heat loss calcs are now: Not substantially different. My new proposal is: The heat pump, cylinder and associated equipment is identical on both proposals. I am really having difficulty with the Labour to fit the heat pump and cylinder on the new proposal being over £2000 more expensive than the original. The materials and location are identical. I also still have no explanation of what sundries come to such a high cost and strangely the sundries on the new proposal are exactly £802 more than the original quote. This is the same amount as the three radiators that I don't require. I am rapidly losing faith with heat geek and am now exploring other avenues. This is just my experience and hopefully others have fared better. Edited Friday at 05:05 by bradders3109 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMo Posted Friday at 06:52 Share Posted Friday at 06:52 Sorry to install a heat pump and cylinder to an existing UFH system - £13k - they are taking the p#ss Panasonic heat pump £2500, cylinder around £1k. Sundries £1k Or contact Cool Energy, they do a self install scheme to get the grant. They design, you install, they commission. Allows you or you plumber and electrician to install. They have a new 6kW heat pump also. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S2D2 Posted Friday at 07:39 Share Posted Friday at 07:39 2 hours ago, bradders3109 said: Are heat geek any good? After watching many you tube videos heat geek and Adam in particular clearly understand the complexities of heat pump installation and how to get the best from an install. I completely bought into the heat geek sales pitch. This is my experience. In may 2024 I had the heat geek heat loss survey completed and was very impressed with the process. The results were as below: I was then quoted for a recommended install as follows: I then pointed out to the installer that no radiators were required and could these costs be removed from the quote. I also queried what sundries came to £2622 since big ticket items are itemised and I had already installed the heat pump base and underfloor heating. After refusing to remove the radiator costs, trying to justify them as "other work" and no satisfactory explanation of the sundries I contacted heat geek to explain my frustration and to cancel the contract. I was assured that heat geek were sympathetic with my experience and they requested that I didn't cancel the contract and they would allocate a new heat geek installer and start the process again. I agreed to this. At the beginning of this week I had the new heat geek installer complete his survey and the heat loss calcs are now: Not substantially different. My new proposal is: The heat pump, cylinder and associated equipment is identical on both proposals. I am really having difficulty with the Labour to fit the heat pump and cylinder on the new proposal being over £2000 more expensive than the original. The materials and location are identical. I also still have no explanation of what sundries come to such a high cost and strangely the sundries on the new proposal are exactly £802 more than the original quote. This is the same amount as the three radiators that I don't require. I am rapidly losing faith with heat geek and am now exploring other avenues. This is just my experience and hopefully others have fared better. I didn't get as far as getting them out for survey but sent my local heat geek elite the spec and the ballpark cost was £7k after the grant. Instead I made use of some Octopus promotional discounts and locked in a price of £2k. When I got a quote from Octopus a year ago it was £5.5k. Heat geek website has told me anywhere between £4k and £12k(!) after grant over time, it's essentially a random number generator. Worth checking Octopus with their current 20% off before the end of the month, comes out similar to what I ended up signing up to. Like you I wanted the perfect system but it would never make back that £5k. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPotts Posted Friday at 14:28 Share Posted Friday at 14:28 (edited) It’s the inflated installation charges that I have issue with and now, from your quote, it looks like misc sundries are inflated too. It’s the BUS grant that is at fault IMO, is this meant to be all profit? Edited Friday at 14:46 by MrPotts 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradders3109 Posted Friday at 15:23 Share Posted Friday at 15:23 8 hours ago, JohnMo said: contact Cool Energy, they do a self install scheme to get the grant. They design, you install, they commission. This looks really interesting. Have you or anyone you know done this? I am a sparky and have adapted to many other trades whilst doing the build so aren't afraid of taking this on but it looks too good to be true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradders3109 Posted Friday at 15:25 Share Posted Friday at 15:25 55 minutes ago, MrPotts said: sundries are inflated As a sparky I consider sundries to be minor items that wouldn't amount to much worth itemising. These sundries are more expensive than the heat pump. Bonkers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradders3109 Posted Friday at 15:27 Share Posted Friday at 15:27 7 hours ago, S2D2 said: Worth checking Octopus Unfortunately they are quoting £6k after the grant so not much difference really. Is the demand for heat pumps so high that installers are now just thinking of a number and then doubling it when it comes to quoting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMo Posted Friday at 15:51 Share Posted Friday at 15:51 20 minutes ago, bradders3109 said: Is the demand for heat pumps so high that installers are now just thinking of a number and then doubling Think there are just a lot of people with a little more money, than sense. Thinking because the tax payer is stumping up £7500 they are getting a bargain. 26 minutes ago, bradders3109 said: This looks really interesting. Have you or anyone you know done this? Not done it, but have seen similar schemes for other heat pumps, and others on here have done it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S2D2 Posted Friday at 17:10 Share Posted Friday at 17:10 1 hour ago, bradders3109 said: Unfortunately they are quoting £6k after the grant so not much difference really. Is the demand for heat pumps so high that installers are now just thinking of a number and then doubling it when it comes to quoting? -20% but still, sounds like my quote a year ago. Keep rolling the dice on the random number generators... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradders3109 Posted Monday at 15:15 Share Posted Monday at 15:15 Hi All By way of an update: Heat geek have now agreed to honour the original price adjusted with the removal of the radiators and associated labour. I am much more comfortable with a final price of £11,054. Still perhaps a little expensive and I'll be interested to see what sundries they fit. I will updated this thread with comments on the quality of the install and the SCOP achieved which heat geek are guaranteeing at 350%. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMo Posted Monday at 15:22 Share Posted Monday at 15:22 3 minutes ago, bradders3109 said: final price of £11,054 That is just bonkers money. A heat pump connected to an existing system that isn't being modified and a cylinder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradders3109 Posted Monday at 15:55 Share Posted Monday at 15:55 29 minutes ago, JohnMo said: That is just bonkers money. I do agree but with the bus grant I'll be paying £3.5k so it's only marginally more than the cost of the heat pump if I was to do a self install. Other quotes that I've had are in the same ball park. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMo Posted Monday at 16:16 Share Posted Monday at 16:16 Just wish I wasn't a tax payer, and then I wouldn't feel conned, every time read one of these posts. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger440 Posted Monday at 17:44 Share Posted Monday at 17:44 1 hour ago, JohnMo said: Just wish I wasn't a tax payer, and then I wouldn't feel conned, every time read one of these posts. Absolutely this!!! Theres a lot of installers getting rich quite quickly. Always the same with any government scheme. Heat geek might be well ahead of other in the technical aspect, but they appear to be on an equal footing with others at taking the taxpayer for a ride. Same as my "free" 4g internet connection. About 250 quid on the open market. But they pay the installer 850!!!! And he does three a day. I guess the money run out now so they are onto EV charger installation. Funded by the welsh government. Again. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradders3109 Posted Monday at 17:54 Share Posted Monday at 17:54 Well intended government schemes that have the desired effect and consumers engage. unfortunately this leads to a shortage of installers to meet demand. Market rules apply. Demand outstrips supply and prices go up. Often leads to lots of cowboys jumping on the bandwagon I’m confident that heat geek installers don’t fall into that bracket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPotts Posted Monday at 19:00 Share Posted Monday at 19:00 With the government giving upto £7.5k in the BUS grant most ASHP installations should be free to the homeowner. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S2D2 Posted Monday at 19:10 Share Posted Monday at 19:10 It may help to think that the BUS budget is a tiny fraction of the windfall tax on oil and gas companies? Provided it can get the cost down to the same as a combi swap buy-in will accelerate. Of course plenty of companies make up a number they think people will pay, that's why I've been shopping around for the last year. I reckon it would cost me £6k to DIY. I had a quote just to supply + replace radiators at £4k. Finally got a quote with the BUS grant for the whole lot for £2.2k, but that frankly just involved a heavy dose of lucky timing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMo Posted Monday at 19:36 Share Posted Monday at 19:36 23 minutes ago, S2D2 said: would cost me £6k to DIY Then why not do MCS certified scheme, then it would cost the best part of nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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