2 x 100m or 1 x 200m borehole

[JamesP]

  On 31/01/2024 at 10:17, ronaldgibbons said:

 I was told that an ASHP wouldn't be able to provide the amount of hot water required throughout the year for all the heating and hot water.

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  On 31/01/2024 at 10:23, Moonshine said:

 

i would speak to a number of different ones just to get different and contrasting views. An ASHP with suitable hot water cylinder / buffer tank should be fine throughout the year especially if its new build house with good insulation and airtightness.

 

Where in the country are you?

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Was just writing similar reply as @Moonshine. ASHP will work fine.

[Originaltwist]

The overwhelming wisdom from responders must lead you to the obvious conclusion to go ASHP. Your misgivings about winter performance are correct though - lower temperatures do lower the COP - but even so you'd have £10,000+ in hand to pay for the slightly higher running cost. Anyway, there are many days when the ASHP runs cheaper than GSHP especially in the second half of winter so which is best is arguable.

You mention UFH throughout. I'd consider fan coil units for bedrooms where the slow response of floors doesn't match the requirements of cool sleeping time but warm getting up time. When you put in the 6kW ASHP, as suggested, fear not for being underpowered, just add a mini-split to top up and do the aircon. Normal pipe sizes will work, heating will be free on many sunny days with a bit of PV, life will be good.

[Kelvin]

  On 31/01/2024 at 10:17, ronaldgibbons said:

I'll need to speak to those installers again (or different ones). I was told that an ASHP wouldn't be able to provide the amount of hot water required throughout the year for all the heating and hot water.

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It really will. There are many people on here with ASHPs and they are perfectly fine. Our previous house was over 300m² and wasn’t particularly well insulated or airtight and it was sufficiently warm with more than enough hot water. The house you are building is similar in size to the house we’ve built. It’s very well insulated and very airtight. I can heat the place with a couple of oil filled rads and have done up to the ASHP being installed.
 

You’re being given duff information on ASHPs I’m afraid. You shouldn’t need to spend anywhere near what your quoting for heating and hot water. 
 

Do you have details on insulation and airtightness targets. 

[ronaldgibbons]

  On 31/01/2024 at 10:23, Moonshine said:

 

i would speak to a number of different ones just to get different and contrasting views. An ASHP with suitable hot water cylinder / buffer tank should be fine throughout the year especially if its new build house with good insulation and airtightness.

 

Where in the country are you?

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The Cowal Peninsula on the West Coast of Scotland. Although it's Scotland and we do get wild weather, temperatures are mild here compared to inland areas. The house is (will be) on a South facing slope with large South facing windows.

[Kelvin]

The other thing to question and research is whether you need UFH upstairs. It’s a big expense. For example we don’t have any heating at all upstairs, apart from an oil filled rad in the bathroom, as do many others on here. We have wired for some electric panel heaters just in case I am wrong about the need for heating. However the house has been up for 9 months and the heating has only been installed for a few weeks and upstairs has been fine. 

[Moonshine]

  On 31/01/2024 at 11:00, Kelvin said:

The other thing to question and research is whether you need UFH upstairs. It’s a big expense. For example we don’t have any heating at all upstairs, apart from an oil filled rad in the bathroom, as do many others on here. We have wired for some electric panel heaters just in case I am wrong about the need for heating. However the house has been up for 9 months and the heating has only been installed for a few weeks and upstairs has been fine. 

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we put ufh in the bathrooms to warm the tiled floor (a comfort thing), with rads in bedrooms.

[ronaldgibbons]

  On 31/01/2024 at 10:53, Kelvin said:

It really will. There are many people on here with ASHPs and they are perfectly fine. Our previous house was over 300m² and wasn’t particularly well insulated or airtight and it was sufficiently warm with more than enough hot water. The house you are building is similar in size to the house we’ve built. It’s very well insulated and very airtight. I can heat the place with a couple of oil filled rads and have done up to the ASHP being installed.
 

You’re being given duff information on ASHPs I’m afraid. You shouldn’t need to spend anywhere near what your quoting for heating and hot water. 
 

Do you have details on insulation and airtightness targets. 

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I don't have that info yet but I'm assuming it's going to be high end. 

[saveasteading]

Time for a chat with your architect I think. You need them to accept what you have established, or prove otherwise.

Also for a clear understanding that you want expertise, not bad info from sales pitches they have heard. 

That applies to the rest of the project too, for example insulation and airtightness.

 

Looking forward to hearing of your progress.

[Dillsue]

  On 31/01/2024 at 11:52, ronaldgibbons said:

I don't have that info yet but I'm assuming it's going to be high end. 

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As the client, the level of insulation and air tightness is up to you. Get your head round your energy saving options and tell your architect what you want- build to passive house or building regs or somewhere in between, but it's your call

[JohnMo]

  On 31/01/2024 at 11:52, ronaldgibbons said:

I don't have that info yet but I'm assuming it's going to be high end. 

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I started in the same place a few years ago, then realised I really wasn't getting what I expected.  After that I learnt and started to drive what my expectation were.  I actively reviewed and commented on every document, as would as a client within an engineering project. Learn and fully understand things like kW is and the difference to a kWh - sounds easy, but you would be surprised how many mix up the units. Also understand U values and R values and the difference.

[Conor]

  On 31/01/2024 at 11:52, ronaldgibbons said:

I don't have that info yet but I'm assuming it's going to be high end. 

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You'll be amazed at the widespread indifference to energy efficiency within the construction industry.

Edited January 31, 2024 by Conor

[ronaldgibbons]

  On 31/01/2024 at 12:22, saveasteading said:

Time for a chat with your architect I think. You need them to accept what you have established, or prove otherwise.

Also for a clear understanding that you want expertise, not bad info from sales pitches they have heard. 

That applies to the rest of the project too, for example insulation and airtightness.

 

Looking forward to hearing of your progress.

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Sorry, the architect friend with the apparently outdated advice on heat pumps is not involved in the build apart from some early creative input. The house will be built of insulated panels. I've got info on the expected insulation values but I don't have technical or engineering drawings yet.

[ronaldgibbons]

  On 31/01/2024 at 13:26, JohnMo said:

I started in the same place a few years ago, then realised I really wasn't getting what I expected.  After that I learnt and started to drive what my expectation were.  I actively reviewed and commented on every document, as would as a client within an engineering project. Learn and fully understand things like kW is and the difference to a kWh - sounds easy, but you would be surprised how many mix up the units. Also understand U values and R values and the difference.

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I'll definitely take your advice. I'm not demanding but I think so far our kit designer has been attentive and informative however I have noticed a drop of since we paid the deposit.🤨

[ronaldgibbons]

  On 31/01/2024 at 13:00, Dillsue said:

As the client, the level of insulation and air tightness is up to you. Get your head round your energy saving options and tell your architect what you want- build to passive house or building regs or somewhere in between, but it's your call

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I agree. The kit designer/builder supplied expected insulation values when we chose the kit style and with the triple glazed windows and doors they've specified I'm expecting to see very high levels of insulation. 

[Kelvin]

  On 31/01/2024 at 15:04, ronaldgibbons said:

I agree. The kit designer/builder supplied expected insulation values when we chose the kit style and with the triple glazed windows and doors they've specified I'm expecting to see very high levels of insulation. 

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Airtightness is at least as important if not more important to building performance. Start reading up on that and decide where you want to get to. 

[Dillsue]

If you've paid a deposit to the kit designer, I assume you have a quote based on a fairly detailed spec. Fair chance you'll  be able to do a pretty accurate heat loss calc off the spec/quote and know if an ASHP is in the running

[AppleDown]

Who is providing the kit? We can probably pull some detail from their website.

[ronaldgibbons]

  On 31/01/2024 at 16:23, AppleDown said:

Who is providing the kit? We can probably pull some detail from their website.

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The kit is being supplied by Fleming Homes to our design. I have details of what the panels in their system claim to provide but as our design has lots of large windows, some large rooms, open spaces, a flat roof and large areas of roof terrace I've assumed the calculations could be relatively complex but will obviously need to be provided in the building warrant drawings. In the meantime I'll be absorbing as much info as I can. Tomorrow I'll be contacting some ASHP installers.👍

Edited January 31, 2024 by ronaldgibbons

[Jenki]

  On 31/01/2024 at 17:00, ronaldgibbons said:

Tomorrow I'll be contacting some ASHP installers.👍

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slow down......   Get the Heat loss calculations for what you want to build and when you have this info, you can ask for quotes - otherwise its just speculation and your spending thousands boring bedrock when a £4K ASHP will (or wont work), and if it won't work then IMHO you need to change the spec, because it should.....

 

[Kelvin]

  On 31/01/2024 at 17:00, ronaldgibbons said:

The kit is being supplied by Fleming Homes to our design. I have details of what the panels in their system claim to provide but as our design has lots of large windows, some large rooms, open spaces, a flat roof and large areas of roof terrace I've assumed the calculations could be relatively complex but will obviously need to be provided in the building warrant drawings. In the meantime I'll be absorbing as much info as I can. Tomorrow I'll be contacting some ASHP installers.👍

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Slow down. You ideally need heat loss calculations done. You can either have a go yourself (there’s a spreadsheet on here if you want to try that) or speak with Fleming Homes about doing the calcs. There’s a Glasgow company called  Lùths Services who specialise in this area. 

[ronaldgibbons]

  On 31/01/2024 at 18:15, Kelvin said:

Slow down. You ideally need heat loss calculations done. You can either have a go yourself (there’s a spreadsheet on here if you want to try that) or speak with Fleming Homes about doing the calcs. There’s a Glasgow company called  Lùths Services who specialise in this area. 

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I just mean for information.

[Iceverge]

Hi Jonathan and Welcome to the forum.

 

Building a house is tremendously exciting but also enormously complicated. 

 

  On 31/01/2024 at 08:42, ronaldgibbons said:

The house design is still going through the initial planning process so I don't have engineering drawings. 

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Excellent looks like you turned up in the nick of time. 

 

My advice is. 

 

Digest the forum and build as close (or beyond) a passivhaus as possible. 

 

If done from the design stage it's not particularly expensive either but will need a little thinking.  

 

The forum will help. Post some de-identified drawings if you like. 

 

You'll have such low energy demand that your choice of heating systems is almost immaterial. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Kelvin]

  On 31/01/2024 at 18:38, ronaldgibbons said:

I just mean for information.

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Sure but the ASHP installers tend to err on the side of caution and don’t take MVHR into account. For example, our installer wanted to fit a much bigger heat pump than our heat loss calculations said. Get the insulation and airtightness detailed really well and your heating input needs will surprise you. Keeping your house cool on really hot days is likely more of a challenge than keeping it warm on really cold days. 

[Guest28]

I've been intrigued by the stark contrast in the adoption of borehole technology for extracting geothermal heat energy between the UK and Sweden. In Sweden, this approach is a cornerstone of sustainable heating and cooling, widely celebrated for its efficiency and minimal environmental impact. 

 

However, in the UK, despite suitable geology in many areas for such technology, the adoption of boreholes for geothermal heat energy is surprisingly limited. The question that arises is why this efficient and sustainable method is not as popular here as it is in Sweden.

 

Could the reasons be related to upfront costs, regulatory challenges, technological constraints, or a simple lack of awareness? Sweden's success with borehole technology demonstrates the potential benefits, suggesting that overcoming these barriers could significantly advance the UK's sustainable energy capabilities.

[JohnMo]

  On 17/03/2024 at 10:24, MBT6 said:

intrigued by the stark contrast in the adoption of borehole technology for extracting geothermal heat energy between the UK and Sweden. In Sweden

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Ambient temperature during the heating season is very different between the two countries. So therefore the SCoP for ASHP during the heating season is very different.  Building and population density are also very different.  You are comparing apples to oranges.