Having a minor disagreement with the new sparks who was recommended on adding a couple of small (400w) electric rads. MI’s state that they need a fused spur with a 5A fuse, but sparks is insisting they also need a 10A isolator too between the power circuit and the fused spur to isolate them, or a combined switched fused spur.
 

Don’t  really want another switch that can be played with as these are smart units so need permanent feeds but is he right ..??

Nope, not how my spark did it. Just a standard fused spur. That of course, doesn't me that he is right and yours is wrong...

Why not fit a switched fused spur, standard for heating units, appliance, gives local isolation and local fusing.

Electric rads, I would say no switch needed as no regular maintenance/cleaning needed.

Only time I fit fuse non switches spurs would be intruder alarms, fire alarms, equipment in bathrooms, everything else is a switched fused spur.

 

But you are the home owner expert, so find another spark if you aren’t happy

Since MI's make no mention of a switch I would be happy fitting just a FCU if that is what the customer wants. 

 

Ask him to show you where in BS7671 it says you have to have a switch.

18 minutes ago, ProDave said:

Since MI's make no mention of a switch I would be happy fitting just a FCU if that is what the customer wants. 

 

Ask him to show you where in BS7671 it says you have to have a switch.

That is my understanding.  MIs usually trump BS7671.  But it is over a decade ago since I did my Micky Mouse Part P.

 

I would just have a look for a switched fused spur that you like the look of.  Then stick some tape over the switch.

Cheers !

 

My concern on switching is it messes up the "smart" bit so will ask him to justify the switch tbh and go from there.

2 hours ago, PeterW said:

messes up the "smart" bit

Don't they have battery back up and just reconnect and pick up the schedule again.

If not, this smart is not very smart.

IET.

 

Means of isolation should be provided at the origin, for every circuit, for every item of equipment, for every motor, for every supply.

 

all current using equipment requiring control shall be controlled by a switch 

Me.

switched fused spur just makes sense

5 minutes ago, TonyT said:

Means of isolation should be provided at the origin, for every circuit, for every item of equipment, for every motor, for every supply.

Can that mean 'back at the consumer unit' though.

34 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

Can that mean 'back at the consumer unit' though.

It does in my opinion.  But this is similar to the bathroom fan isolator switch and I am still waiting for someone to show me where it says it needs one.  I learned early on NEVER EVER have a fan isolator switch in a rental property.

13 minutes ago, ProDave said:

I learned early on NEVER EVER have a fan isolator switch in a rental property.

I did too! “There’s mould in the bathroom” sure enough the fan was turned off.

We are trying to subdivide the installation into smaller safer components to minimise lots of issues.

 

i cant see the drama in a switched fused spur and it doesn’t then get switched off.

3 minutes ago, TonyT said:

We are trying to subdivide the installation into smaller safer components to minimise lots of issues.

 

i cant see the drama in a switched fused spur and it doesn’t then get switched off.

But what if it is in a rental property and every time the tenant switches it off the program settings are lost?  When there is no need to turn it off because it is remote controlled by some smart device?

I do dislike "smart" electric rads. I had to deal with this recently:

https://www.electriq.co.uk/p/vs8-1800-2.4dgw/electriq-vs818002.4dgw-heater-heater

It has 2x 1.2kW elements in one radiator , with serious drawbacks

- each element has its own Wifi connection to a Tuya cloud server run from china, so to set the target temperature of two separate room stats

- makes an annoying beep when turned on, so my plan to automate it from central room stat (via Loxone Relays) is a non-starter as it would be beeping all day and night

- they claim 2x1200W input makes it a 2.4kW "BTU" heat output. It isn't, as each element boils the water and shuts off, duty cycle is less than 50% on. Maybe 1kW effective sustained output.

- even then, the area around the element is scoldingly hot to touch so needs protecting from small hands.

- each stat picks up heat wash from the output from the other, so seemed to have to crank one up to 30C target to come on at all

 

 

 

Not my cup of tea.

 

17 minutes ago, joth said:

I do dislike "smart" electric rads. I had to deal with this recently:

https://www.electriq.co.uk/p/vs8-1800-2.4dgw/electriq-vs818002.4dgw-heater-heater

It has 2x 1.2kW elements in one radiator , with serious drawbacks

- each element has its own Wifi connection to a Tuya cloud server run from china, so to set the target temperature of two separate room stats

- makes an annoying beep when turned on, so my plan to automate it from central room stat (via Loxone Relays) is a non-starter as it would be beeping all day and night

- they claim 2x1200W input makes it a 2.4kW "BTU" heat output. It isn't, as each element boils the water and shuts off, duty cycle is less than 50% on. Maybe 1kW effective sustained output.

- even then, the area around the element is scoldingly hot to touch so needs protecting from small hands.

- each stat picks up heat wash from the output from the other, so seemed to have to crank one up to 30C target to come on at all

 

 

 

Not my cup of tea.

 

What is wrong with a convector heater with a simple heating element, a timer and thermostat built in.

 

I took a major dislike to "posh" electric heaters when the wonderful EU introduced "LOT20" intending to make electric heaters more efficient by enforcing electronic controls.  The first one I installed, I removed a week later, as the customer just could not understand the controls, and it kept shutting down with a message "window open detected"  What a load of rubbish.