Tiles too 'loud' - and excessive bathroom retile quote

[puntloos]

So - for one bathroom we're not happy with the tiles we received. The sample effectively came off the lightest part of the tile, and the overall tile, now that it's installed, is hugely more 'loud' than we expected. Note the circle confirms the same pattern exists so it is the same tile. 

 

 

 

1/ Is there something you can do without replacing the tile? If anything I'd love to "mist some white paint" against the tiles and done. 

 

2/ Barring that, the quote we got for retiling is basically 10,000 where the site https://victoriaplum.com/blog/posts/bathroom-tiling-costs-and-installation suggests perhaps 2-5000 GBP. Itemised quote below. Can someone spot what the deal is?

 

	FAMILY BATHROOM
	Disconnections
1	Electrician to disconnect, day rate needs to be paid if only one bathroom is done	1	day	£300.00	£300.00
2	Plumber to disconnect, day rate needs to be paid if only one bathroom is done	1	day	£250.00	£250.00
3	Remove cabinets, day rate needs to be paid if only one bathroom is done	1	day	£160.00	£160.00
	Demolition Works
4	Labourer (2nr labourers x 2nr days)	4	days	£160.00	£640.00
5	Rubbish removal	1	skip	£350.00	£350.00
	New Substrate
6	Supply & fit cement backing board	36	m2	£32.00	£1,152.00
7	Bathroom waterproofing (shower & bath), install shower niche & bath boxing	1	item		£950.00
	Plumbing
8	Re-install 1st & 2nd fix plumbing	4	days	£250.00	£1,000.00
	Tiling Works
9	Wall tiling	36	m2	£85.00	£3,060.00
10	Bath & access panel tiling	1	item		£150.00
11	Supply & fit tile trims	1	item		£250.00
12	Cutting holes in porcelain wall tiles	25	nr	£15.00	£375.00
	Additional Supply for Shower Niches
13	Abacus Bathrooms Elements Waterproof Recessed	2.00	nr	£65.00	£130.00
14	Delivery	1	item		£30.00
	Furniture & Equipment
15	Heated towel rail installation	1	item		£125.00
16	Mirror cabinet Installation (electrical connection by electrician)	1	item		£100.00
17	Install cabinetry	1	item		£400.00
18	Supply & install new window sill	1	item		£100.00
19	Install LED in niches, electrical connection to mirror & shaver socket - Subject to reciept of Elec quote	1	item		TBA
	Decoratation
20	Mastic works	1	day	£180.00	£180.00
21	Painting	1	day	£220.00	£220.00
22	Materials & deliveries	1	item		£150.00
23	Builders clean	1	item		£180.00
	Sub Total				£10,252.00

 

[SteamyTea]

How about a dimmable, colour change, LED light.

Got to be worth a try as it could be a very cheap fix.

 

No one wants bright lights in a bathroom, except pornographers and @Pocster, which amounts to the same thing.

 

Just seen the bottom of that quote.

If the light bulb work, it is only £3k.

Edited December 27, 2023 by SteamyTea

[Pocster]

2 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

How about a dimmable, colour change, LED light.

Got to be worth a try as it could be a very cheap fix.

 

No one wants bright lights in a bathroom, except pornographers and @Pocster, which amounts to the same thing.

 

Just seen the bottom of that quote.

If the light bulb work, it is only £3k.

Infra red in bathrooms . No one sees anything - but paid for subscriptions see everything 💰 

[SteamyTea]

1 minute ago, Pocster said:

but paid for subscriptions see everything

In green and black, we all love a bit of dark.

 

[puntloos]

6 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

How about a dimmable, colour change, LED light.

Got to be worth a try as it could be a very cheap fix.

The lights are dimmable colour change, but the problem as you say:

6 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

 

No one wants bright lights in a bathroom, except pornographers and @Pocster, which amounts to the same thing.

 

So turning up the lights might hide the big contrast, but would be too bright for our non-naughty purposes like brushing teeth.

 

6 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

Just seen the bottom of that quote.

If the light bulb work, it is only £3k.

 

Can't tell if you're joking or not

[SteamyTea]

I wonder if you can glaze them in a milky white, semi opaque acrylic.

 

(starting to sound more and more like a pornographers film set)

[puntloos]

3 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

I wonder if you can glaze them in a milky white, semi opaque acrylic.

 

(starting to sound more and more like a pornographers film set)

Yep that was the 'direction' I was thinking with my 'misting white paint' point. Does anyone know if this is feasible at all?

 

Separately though are there any items listed in the quote unnecessary, or are they outrageously priced, or is "3000 for a bathroom retile" actually not a reasonable rule of thumb anymore nowadays?

 

[SteamyTea]

6 minutes ago, puntloos said:

Does anyone know if this is feasible at all

It should be.  Might be worth having a word with a sprayer as there is a choice of 4 main chemistries.

If you have a few off cuts of the tile, you can take them over to one and get them to play with them.

Edited December 27, 2023 by SteamyTea

[nod]

 

Im struggling to read the spreadsheet off my phone I’m reading £85m2 Does that include the tiles ?

[puntloos]

11 minutes ago, nod said:

 

Im struggling to read the spreadsheet off my phone I’m reading £85m2 Does that include the tiles ?

I'm fairly sure it excludes tiles.

[nod]

3 minutes ago, puntloos said:

I'm fairly sure it excludes tiles.

Bloodyhell 

Im going to close my commercial tiling business after Christmas Get myself a little van and go tiling bathrooms 😁

 

[SteamyTea]

22 minutes ago, nod said:

Bloodyhell 

Im going to close my commercial tiling business after Christmas Get myself a little van and go tiling bathrooms 😁

 

Have you ever been to Hertfordshire.  Vikki Beckham has raised the standards.

[puntloos]

Seriously though, are most of the prices listed OK, but the 85/sqm for "labour" the one that stands out, or are all these prices on the high side? 

Basically I'm trying to figure out what i'm missing, which bits are reasonable, which are pricey and are there any true mistakes there...

 

One day of work (as you can see elsewhere) is listed as 250/day for a plumber, let's assume a tiler is the same price, so by that math tiling one bathroom is 3000/8 = 12 days? Weird?

[Kelvin]

59 minutes ago, puntloos said:

I'm fairly sure it excludes tiles.

It’s exactly twice one of my quotes and I thought that was dear so yes it’s dear. In fact it’s dearer than my all up price including tiles and materials

Edited December 27, 2023 by Kelvin

[nod]

33 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

Have you ever been to Hertfordshire.  Vikki Beckham has raised the standards.

We often work in Cheshire 

On both Neville’s The Bechams used to be there neighbors if that counts 😁

 

Seriously The guys that work for me will tile and grout most bathrooms in two days 

[nod]

35 minutes ago, puntloos said:

Seriously though, are most of the prices listed OK, but the 85/sqm for "labour" the one that stands out, or are all these prices on the high side? 

Basically I'm trying to figure out what i'm missing, which bits are reasonable, which are pricey and are there any true mistakes there...

 

One day of work (as you can see elsewhere) is listed as 250/day for a plumber, let's assume a tiler is the same price, so by that math tiling one bathroom is 3000/8 = 12 days? Weird?

I hardly ever pay day rates 

But the rates are ok If they are working and not stretching things out 

If £85 m2 is for fixing tiles That’s at least double what it should be and bares no resemblance to to day rates of the other trades Even in Hertfordshire 😁

Thirty odd m2 at 42 would still give a tiler 700 + per day Or 350 per day if he drove from Preston each day and took four days 😁

[Gus Potter]

5 hours ago, puntloos said:

/ Is there something you can do without replacing the tile? If anything I'd love to "mist some white paint" against the tiles and done. 

I have large format tiles, but installed them myself. They are tricky. I was particular as I wanted all the joints to line up with the tiles on the floor, took myself and wife ages to not get too heavy a pattern, just like you have noted. At the end of the day even though we had some technically 37 different configurations of tile pattern we had to make some compromises.

 

But I think you may be ok.. remember the job is not finished yet!

 

I can see a recess on the RHS of the photo and assume that is where the shower will go? Once you get all the screen, tray, soap dish fitted etc the wall should balance out as you are going to introduce "some busy stuff" on the RHS. What we didn't want to do in the shower area was to have too much density of pattern in the shower enclosure (makes it dark)  as we know that once all the bits are fitted the shower area could appear to be a "black hole" without the "woke" you now get on Dr Who that of course brightens our life up considerably.

 

Clear the room out and do a trial fit of all the stuff you are going to install in the bathroom and see if it makes any difference. report back.. I hope you have a nice surprise!

 

 

Edited December 27, 2023 by Gus Potter

[saveasteading]

The best tilers will be very quick and charge for what seems like twice or more of that time. 

A lump sum say £1,000 and be done in 2 days.

I got a better price for some complex tiling by offering to labour: simply handing over the next tile after selecting size and pattern. He said it saved him a third of his time, getting up and down.

Also your floor is ultra flat so the adhesive will be constant and thin.

 

But the best value is a rug  or coffee table over that circle (nobody else will notice)  and learn to look up.

 

[puntloos]

Sorry I somehow don't have a good recent pic of the near-finished bathroom so I used a pic of the kid bath with same tile.

Put below an okay-ish pic of this bathroom. 

 

3 hours ago, nod said:

Thirty odd m2 at 42 would still give a tiler 700 + per day Or 350 per day if he drove from Preston each day and took four days 😁

 

Well, you up to drive to Herts?

 

54 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

A lump sum say £1,000 and be done in 2 days.

 

Sold

 

 

[Gus Potter]

50 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

The best tilers will be very quick and charge for what seems like twice or more of that time. 

True enough. It takes many years to become expert in you trade and in return you deserve the reward.

 

For me I used to be a Contractor, and also a self taught trades person. I've installed a bathroom in my own house, striped everything back to the bare timber frame, insualted all that with a timber suspended floor. But I'm also an SE so know how all these materials interact.

 

At the end of the day the materials / bath ect cost about 10k.. but to get someone else to achieve the same quality of work and not make an arse of it would have cost us 30 - 40k. We priced checked all of this, wife said Gus.. I trust you to make a better job and we can't afford that luxury otherwise.

 

The biggies for me were fitting the chipboard on a timber suspended floor over my UF design ( but the UF for me is easy as I know what I'm doing), I glued and screwed that to death. Next was a decoupling matt.. not done that before but @nod etc gave me the confidence to tackle that. You need to take your time with this and use the right adhesives.. which are expensive.. but the tiles we have are expensive. The decoupling matt and extra adhesive added about 15% to the cost of the materials. Probaly one great tool was my glass suckers as I used them to lift and place the place the 1220 x 600 mm tiles. Also I used a tile levelling kit, worked ok for me.

 

At the end of the day I'm glad it did it myself as I had spent the time taking advice. I'm nearly finished that room. I need to make a mockup shower screen to see how far the water spashes out.. it's not an enclosure.. just a bit of glass.. these things are bespoke but within our price range if we think smart.

 

 

[Gus Potter]

21 minutes ago, puntloos said:

Sorry I somehow don't have a good recent pic of the near-finished bathroom so I used a pic of the kid bath with same tile.

Put below an okay-ish pic of this bathroom. 

Hiya.

 

I was looking at the photos and made some assumptions that the photo was realistic. Anyway @puntloos next time.. !

 

But for all. Don't put all your busy tiles in the shower enclosure.. design is about balance, scale and light in a bathrooom not least.

 

@puntloos I suspect there is more to this.. have they just done a crap job. If so then tell us and we will give you the tools to get some money back.

 

@nod I would be quite happy to pay you £250 - 300 a day plus your travelling time / accommodation /  fuel and van so long as you worked at a steady pace all day. But at that rate I also want you to give me the benefit of your professional experience, if something is wrong then I would expect you to tell me before you start work and once it is complete I want it all in the tolerances and no mincing about from you if it is not.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[puntloos]

19 minutes ago, Gus Potter said:

Hiya.

 

I was looking at the photos and made some assumptions that the photo was realistic. Anyway @puntloos next time.. !

Yep, sorry I should've said more clearly it wasn't the exact pic  

19 minutes ago, Gus Potter said:

 

But for all. Don't put all your busy tiles in the shower enclosure.. design is about balance, scale and light in a bathrooom not least.

 

@puntloos I suspect there is more to this.. have they just done a crap job. If so then tell us and we will give you the tools to get some money back.

Honestly there's not much more to this, the builders have been doing a great job overall, the tiles just didn't turn out like we wanted and we only noticed when the work was 99% done, nobody's fault really, just bad luck.

 

I don't know if the builder has some unknown-to-me reason to suddenly start charging "full-or-more" prices for things, but clearly with this particular issue, while weird to have a 'random tiler drop into a building site' this is one that they know I can easily leave aside their quote and go to another bathroom guy. If they really wanted to put me in a corner surely they would pick some work that's harder to outsource.

 

To be clear, this house and the standard we have been adhering to are pretty high even for Hertfordshire, so we can't compare "good builder in McKillikennock, Flaniganshire, Ireland" prices with this   - hence me trying to piece it together what makes this price so high

 

Edited December 28, 2023 by puntloos

[Gus Potter]

16 minutes ago, puntloos said:

Honestly there's not much more to this, the builders have been doing a great job overall, the tiles just didn't turn out like we wanted and we only noticed when the work was 99% done, nobody's fault really, just bad luck

Hiya, got a soft soft for you as you have done a great job and worked so hard.

 

The builders may be trying to sting you at the end as they have other offers. Some times builders.. like lovers say.. it was good fun but.. I have a chance at hollywood and the big time.

 

Post a photo of what you have. Also fesse up if there is an underlying problem, I think you're pragmatic.. is there more to this than meets the eye?

 

 

[Kelvin]

Choosing tiles is hard. One single sample might look great but look terrible on the wall. We had 25 tile samples at one point and I got a bit tile blind. We loved a few patterned tiles but decided not to go with them and went with some large format textured cream tiles. The idea being that the bathroom furniture will break up the uniform colour as Gus suggests. 

[Tetrarch]

Overtiling one wall with something very plain will help. If it doesn't do another wall. This should not be expensive as you're starting with a completely flat substrate

 

Regards

 

Tet