waylanderUK Posted December 15, 2023 Share Posted December 15, 2023 (edited) Hi everyone - first post here so be gentle We own a small holding and it's rumoured the adjacent 4 acres of woodland (with a farm access track through the middle) will be used for paintball in the near future. Obviously we are somewhat concerned about it from both a noise and safety point of view - local council queries have been rather unhelpful. They won't say anything until/unless they receive an actual application. Does anyone here know how likely change of use is to be passed given its classed as "Ancient woodland", only 4 acres, directly adjacent to our house and having a farm access track through the middle? Its such small piece of land and simply not safe for such an application. Any thoughts greatly appreciated! Edited December 15, 2023 by waylanderUK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Temp Posted December 15, 2023 Share Posted December 15, 2023 Difficult one the comment on. I've only done it once with my kids. I think the noise might bother me but I doubt it's a safety issue. Government policy tends to encourage rural land owners to diversify into other areas. Find out if your council has any similar local policies. Perhaps find out if there are any bats or similar endangered species living there. Google found mixed results... https://www.planningresource.co.uk/article/563420/casebook-appeal-case-leisure-entertainment-paintball-games-permitted-ancient-woodland https://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/17774373.skirmish-paintball-faces-action-harm-woodland/ You should look for more cases and the reasons others cite for rejection. I also found mention of a document.. "English Nature & European Paintball Federation (1993) Paintball games in woodlands: a guide to good environmental practice, English Nature, Peterborough" Probably worth finding a copy to see what that says. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted December 15, 2023 Share Posted December 15, 2023 Hello @waylanderUK. How about going paintballing yourself? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waylanderUK Posted December 15, 2023 Author Share Posted December 15, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, Temp said: Difficult one the comment on. I've only done it once with my kids. I think the noise might bother me but I doubt it's a safety issue. Government policy tends to encourage rural land owners to diversify into other areas. Find out if your council has any similar local policies. Perhaps find out if there are any bats or similar endangered species living there. Google found mixed results... https://www.planningresource.co.uk/article/563420/casebook-appeal-case-leisure-entertainment-paintball-games-permitted-ancient-woodland https://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/17774373.skirmish-paintball-faces-action-harm-woodland/ You should look for more cases and the reasons others cite for rejection. I also found mention of a document.. "English Nature & European Paintball Federation (1993) Paintball games in woodlands: a guide to good environmental practice, English Nature, Peterborough" Probably worth finding a copy to see what that says. They wear masks to do paintball though ive heard? Our house borders directly onto the land and I won't be wearing a mask. Neither will the farmer driving through in his old tractor to get to his fields...? I suppose the noise was the least of my issues really - being in the countryside there are noisier things going on. I suppose it's also the privacy aspect - the field looks directly into our house/lgardens and has been historically unused. @Temp Yeah ive had a read around but havent found anything quite like our case i.e. the size, proximity to other houses. I did find references to rights of way through a paintball fields being a big no-no somewhere. Which makes sense. Cheers Edited December 15, 2023 by waylanderUK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kandgmitchell Posted December 15, 2023 Share Posted December 15, 2023 Not really surprised by the LA reaction, it's hard enough getting a response about a current application let alone on one that's only speculation. As above, first stop is the Council's local plan, look for that on their planning pages within their website. It will set out their policies assessing planning applications. Look for commercial development in the countryside, diversification, protection of natural resources etc. Try to think along the lines of "would this proposed use satisfy this policy?" Usually I'd be trying to show that it does, you need to do the reverse. Think impact of car parking, noise and disturbance within the woodland, impact on your own amenity etc. If possible align these concerns with the appropriate policy. If the proposal can be shown to contravene sufficient local plan policies it will fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted December 15, 2023 Share Posted December 15, 2023 5 hours ago, waylanderUK said: it's rumoured the adjacent 4 acres of woodland (with a farm access track through the middle) Well the council won’t know anything if it’s just a rumour 5 hours ago, waylanderUK said: will be used for paintball in the near future. they will need to apply for planning then the council will know and you have the opportunity to view the details and object if you have valid grounds, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waylanderUK Posted December 16, 2023 Author Share Posted December 16, 2023 So I suppose a bit more info is that we’re planning on building a new house to replace a storage building - a sizeable investment. I’d have thought paintballing activities right behind a new house is going to reduce its value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted December 16, 2023 Share Posted December 16, 2023 2 minutes ago, waylanderUK said: I’d have thought paintballing activities right behind a new house is going to reduce its value. But have they applied for planning??? Or it just a rumour 🤷♂️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Punter Posted December 16, 2023 Share Posted December 16, 2023 The owner of the woodland may not need to apply for consent as it may be allowed as PD under the 28 day rule. Even if they wanted to use it for longer, as long as there are no permanent structures, they may well be granted consent anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozza Posted December 16, 2023 Share Posted December 16, 2023 (edited) Would you be ok with it if it (the paintballing) if it didn’t actually cause you any problems? Eg it was set up and run in a way that you don’t hear or see the activity? Edited December 16, 2023 by Bozza Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted December 16, 2023 Share Posted December 16, 2023 Interesting info. https://p8ntballer-forums.com/threads/planning-permission.178009/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waylanderUK Posted December 16, 2023 Author Share Posted December 16, 2023 8 hours ago, Bozza said: Would you be ok with it if it (the paintballing) if it didn’t actually cause you any problems? Eg it was set up and run in a way that you don’t hear or see the activity? Unlikely given the land is only 50m by 200m. You couldn’t miss them as the land is so slim if you get me. They would be practically next to our garden. I’ve got. Nothing against anyone using their land for whatever but it’s gotta be appropriate. To me - this isn’t safe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozza Posted December 17, 2023 Share Posted December 17, 2023 How much of your garden borders their land is it the 200m dimension, or the 50m dimension. Are you able to post a google image screenshot or whatever. How much land do you have next to them. Otherwise any advice would be very generic. I have land of differing types all around me - some used, some not used . Some would cause more problems than others for the likes of paintballing so trying to understand your precise predicament and geography. & when you say rumoured what precisely does that mean. Have you asked the landowner about it. Has the landowner got form for winding up and antagonising neighbours. My neighbouring landowners and I get on and a few of them have chatted over with me potential use for their land and they’re not the types to do anything inconsiderate. Or are yours the opposite if that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jilly Posted December 17, 2023 Share Posted December 17, 2023 (edited) Other options: 1 Try to buy the land yourself. 2 Prove that the farm track is a Right of Way by previous use (Ramblers and British Horse Society have good resources). If it was ever an old right of way (look on old maps) then ‘Once a highway, always a highway’ can sometimes apply, but there have been some recent changes/deadlines to submit ‘evidence of use’ forms Edited December 17, 2023 by Jilly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelvin Posted December 17, 2023 Share Posted December 17, 2023 (edited) 13 hours ago, waylanderUK said: Unlikely given the land is only 50m by 200m. You couldn’t miss them as the land is so slim if you get me. They would be practically next to our garden. I’ve got. Nothing against anyone using their land for whatever but it’s gotta be appropriate. To me - this isn’t safe. You need to decide what your main objection is. Is it the noise, the potential to devalue a property you’ve yet to even start a planning application for or the safety aspect? If they can satisfy your concerns about making it safe will you be ok about it then? Assuming they go ahead and make the rumour real of course. I struggle to see how a woodland could be turned into recreational use if there’s regular vehicle access through the middle of it. That said, you don’t need a significant amount of space for paint balling depending on how they set it up. I did it a lot with my son and the best ones were where the layout was in a small area. If the area is too big it’s less fun and the games are much longer. Edited December 17, 2023 by Kelvin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted December 17, 2023 Share Posted December 17, 2023 Does anyone know what happens with paint shots that miss the target and hit a tree or land on the ground? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelvin Posted December 17, 2023 Share Posted December 17, 2023 The casing is gelatine like they use in the pharmaceutical industry. It’s not really paint but a water soluble dye. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted December 17, 2023 Share Posted December 17, 2023 2 hours ago, Kelvin said: It’s not really paint but a water soluble dye. So no harm to the bark or roots of trees or ground plants in the stated 'ancient woodland? I saw a complaint that some big run over hill and moorland had painted dye* onto rocks to show the route. Apparently when it washes off, even the tiny amount will upset the extremely delicate chemical balance in the acid soil. *'upside down paint', as I recently heard it called and now say myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelvin Posted December 17, 2023 Share Posted December 17, 2023 I’m sure I read that it was the logging industry that developed paint ball guns to make it easier to mark trees to fell. I might well have made that up though. I would have that running about an ancient woodland would do a certain amount of damage plus the potential for a load of rubbish being left laying about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waylanderUK Posted December 17, 2023 Author Share Posted December 17, 2023 (edited) The land is approx 150m alongside ours. Essentially the owner of the land wants 65k for it and has told us he will sell it to paintballers if we don’t buy it. £65k for 4 acres doesn’t compute. both the existing and new properties literally back straight into the woodland. Edited December 17, 2023 by waylanderUK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozza Posted December 17, 2023 Share Posted December 17, 2023 (edited) 48 minutes ago, waylanderUK said: The land is approx 150m alongside ours. Essentially the owner of the land wants 65k for it and has told us he will sell it to paintballers if we don’t buy it. £65k for 4 acres doesn’t compute. both the existing and new properties literally back straight into the woodland. You missed that bit out. Who has the right of access? Him or you? Have you been trying to buy that land ? Edited December 17, 2023 by Bozza Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jilly Posted December 17, 2023 Share Posted December 17, 2023 Get together with the neighbours and buy it? Check the planning situation with the council to see if he’s bluffing? Nb Devaluing your property isn’t a proper planning objection 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted December 17, 2023 Share Posted December 17, 2023 On 15/12/2023 at 12:42, waylanderUK said: ... Does anyone here know how likely change of use is to be passed ... No, none of us do - or can. A local planning consultant (whom you employ) may well do so. The best thing you can dio is to network locally and listen to informal but authoritative informed opnion . Golf course, Rotary Club, local Councillors, local planning consultants and a trawl through the LPA website for similar (analogous) applications. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waylanderUK Posted December 17, 2023 Author Share Posted December 17, 2023 3 hours ago, Bozza said: You missed that bit out. Who has the right of access? Him or you? Have you been trying to buy that land ? The owner of the land has given access to a farmer for a field he sold to him at the other side of the 4 acres. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waylanderUK Posted December 17, 2023 Author Share Posted December 17, 2023 3 hours ago, Jilly said: Get together with the neighbours and buy it? Check the planning situation with the council to see if he’s bluffing? Nb Devaluing your property isn’t a proper planning objection No neighbours apart from the guy selling the land but 60k is way over the odds for land ee can’t use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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