Draining external taps prior to the BIG FREEZE

[Adsibob]

Last year my builder showed me how to drain my two external taps. He shut off their water supply from a lever/tap that we have internally, then, next to that lever there is an inlet that he connected a rubber tube to. He opened the external taps all the way and blew into the tube. This pushed some water out of the taps. The plumbing (which is all Buteline) survived the winter. 
 

According to Buteline’s website, “cold water is less likely to freeze in plastic pipes than in metal pipes when exposed to very low temperatures. Note last time I checked, most ice cube trays are still made of plastic, so I didn’t read in too much to what the Buteline website says. I therefore tried to blow out some of the water from the two taps but failed miserably. (joint between my jaw and skull near my ear started hurting so I stopped as better a burst pipe than a burst part of my head!)

 

According to my MVHR unit it is currently 0.6C outside. Forecast is that it will drop to -1 quite soon, and then to -2 between about 2am and 4am.  Temperatures should rise above freezing by 9am. 
 

Are my pipes done for, or do I have tomorrow to go and buy some sort of pump?

 

[Russdl]

If you can isolate the tap from the inside and then open the tap outside I’m pretty sure there will be zero chance of any damage. Any residual water that freezes will expand along the largely empty pipe pushing air out of the outside tap rather than trying to bust its way through the pipe. 

[Kelvin]

Aren’t they lagged with insulation? I had a standpipe in the paddock of the last house. The box was GRP, the pipes plastic, and some insulation stuffed in the box. It never froze as the horses would have complained. 

[Ferdinand]

Ha ! 

 

Why is everyone suggesting technical solutions here, when the issue is clearly that you can't blow (or suck) hard enough? 

You have a need for that versatile buildhub practitioner known as an elephant.

 

There are two methods:

 

1 - Attach the elephant to the inside pipe, and then make it sneeze. Requires pepper and a tolerant elephant.

 

2 - Attach the elephant to the outside of the tap, put a clothes peg on it's trunk and take it off when it is desperate for a breath. At that point there will be a sharp intake of breath by the elephant and the water will be extracted from your piece of pipe.

 

It is wise to have your running shoes with studs on at the time. Elephants can do 40kph.

 

I believe we discussed this in the past when we were talking about getting ropes through ducts, as an alternative to using moles or pigs.

 

An alternative is to have grown up playing the trombone, or as an apprentice town-crier. I did the former with the trumpet and I have a routine asthma test in 45 minutes, for which I am stood in good stead thereby.

 

(More seriously, it sounds as if you should be OK.)

Useful content: There are some styles of tap that have the turn handle on the outside and the valve deeper in the wall to keep it warmer. There are also things like this one which have a built in drain:

https://www.arleymosssupplies.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=2711

 

If you go for a pump, is it suitable to use one that does your car tyres, or bicycle? I don't see why not.

 

Ferdinand

[Adsibob]

8 hours ago, Russdl said:

If you can isolate the tap from the inside and then open the tap outside I’m pretty sure there will be zero chance of any damage

We’ve done that, so hopefully we are okay.

 

2 hours ago, Kelvin said:

Aren’t they lagged with insulation?

Nope. To my amazement neither the plumber, the foreman, nor the main contractor thought to provision for this. I had intended for one of the two pipes to run within the house and therefore largely be insulated, with only the tap outside, but I wasn’t on site when the pipes were laid. I always knew the pipe for the other tap wouldn’t be within the thermal envelope, as it’s halfway down the garden. I could still insulate it now, but I’m not sure this is really a solution for anything other than a very short spell of freezing temperatures. The insulation can’t retain the temperature of the pipe for ever, particularly given  it’s hardly used in winter.

Edited November 30, 2023 by Adsibob

[jayc89]

We don't have anyway to isolate our outside tap (long story) but it is insulated from 700mm below ground up, and so far so good. When we replace the garages I'll re-run the outside supply, along with power and comms, and include an isolator in the utility room. 

[Kelvin]

The pipe under the ground won’t freeze as long as it’s not just below the surface so you just need to insulate where it comes up out of the ground. Our standpipe never froze no matter how cold it got. It doesn’t take much insulation to stop the pipes from freezing. The standpipe housing I used was completely self enclosed with the tap

inside behind a lockable door. I stuffed extra insulation inside this. 
 

I’ve had a similar worry with our borehole headworks chamber. I’ve lagged all the pipes inside the brick chamber and also in the garage albeit the garage is also insulated. I will insulate the walls of the chamber and the lid with some leftover 25mm PIR I have. 

[Alan Ambrose]

Obviously there some insulation thingys which go over the tap. Screwfix etc. I put mine on a couple of weeks ago. My water company suggested one of the insulated green boxes that @Kelvin mentioned for a site tap.

[markocosic]

Open the inside tap. Open the outside tap to "lift" the washer on it using water pressure. Now close the inside tap and, with the outside tap still open, blow out the water.

 

The rubber washer is probably stuck in th closed position and you're not able to lift it with breathing. "Crack" it with the water pressure first then it'll be lifted and you can blow through fine. 🙂

[BotusBuild]

After last Winter's big freeze and the resulting burst pipe - we happened to be onsite when it happened thank goodness - we insulated the above ground pipe and tap with various offcuts of PIR and EPS we had.

[Ferdinand]

I've been doing internal master taps on tenanted houses for a number of years. I find Ts usually like that an an external double socket, especially if they like gardening. Ts who like gardening are worth their weight in tomatoes.

 

In one memorable case I have no idea where the pipe goes when it vanishes underground, it is so old. That was my own cottage which my gran and grandad owned from 1926. So when it froze originally we had to dig a hole around it to give space for the plumber to work. On that one it has a stop tap at the base of the outside pipe, and a normal two-headed tap at the end (one for hose plus one for buckets - T uses it a lot).

 

My call would be leave external tap open, and cloe the inside master tap, for the freezing period. And insulate a box with some rockwool just for a bit of extra resilience if it is away from the house or an outbuilding.

 

F