Advice required - idea to price jobs in a new way

[75darren]

Hey everyone,

 

Wasn't sure where to post this, but 'Building Materials' felt like the best spot. 

 

I'm reaching out to the experienced builders here because for your insights. Having spent several years in the field, I understand the hassle of pricing jobs, a sentiment echoed by my builder friends. Nowadays I am a skilled programmer looking to address this issue. I have a simple, user-friendly solution which will be free for builders to use (I'll explain more later).

Here's the gist.

 

Imagine starting a new quote, and the customer's name and email seamlessly import from your saved clients. You can add line items effortlessly. The 'Product Search' feature lets you explore local suppliers, showing prices and locations (see mock-up image below). A simple click adds your chosen product to the quote. I'd love to hear your thoughts on this and any ideas to improve, change or refine this solution. I want to code exactly what real world builder genuinely need.

 

Regarding the decision to offer the app for free, the concept is to provide the tool that allows users to price jobs for free. There's will be an option to unlock additional features through an upgrade to offset any cost I incur on the free tool. Some feature ideas include invoicing, a job timer, office calendar, team management, and more. I'd appreciate hearing your thoughts on feature ideas too.

 

 

[JohnMo]

Is this blatant advertising?

[MR10]

@75darren how is this relevant to self builders who are the client/customers? Not sure you have the right audience.

[Alan Ambrose]

OK as en ex-designer & software developer, I'll bite. Yep, you may be asking the wrong people, although self-builders often do spend a lot of money themselves, so they could be users. In fact they may have their own particular requirements compared to builders.

 

My 10c:

 

+ there are a lot of 3rd parties who want to do 100% digital disintermediation and take a margin. And that's against the general transparency thrust of the internet, so you have an up-hill battle. Every time I Google 'concrete pipe suffolk' (or something) there will be a bunch of sites wanting to take my lead info and sell it to someone for a margin. Yeah right.

+ So if you want it to work, you need to offer a significant benefit to warrant the customer's set-up time, difficulty communicating with the end supplier, difficulty checking delivery status, restricted UI, limited list of suppliers etc etc etc. And you need to understand the customer's buying process very well. For instance, as self-builders, when we buy taps, yeah we may want cheap, but we also want quality functionality and at least a little bit of design quality. I may choose mid-range, or I may go Vola. If we're a small custom builder working for a client, we will need to show these to our customer and get their buy in. A lot of trades will get their customers to buy 'customer-facing' items like taps directly to cut out all the buying and ordering faff. Yeah the plumber may buy the pipe, joints etc without consulting the customer but they'll often get the customer to choose and buy their own taps, baths etc. A small builder, building houses on spec will make their own choices, hoping their eventual purchasers will like them. But if the plumber is working for a larger developer, the developer's design and buying people will make the selection. Are you seeing there are different 'user journeys' here. They're all 'builders' though.

+ So, it's all in the detail. I don't think anyone buys taps by specifying a search radius. Do you think we don't buy anything from the general internet? And, if we're in a rush, do you think we don't know which local suppliers have good taps?

 

Not that there isn't value add you can deliver to this segment: selecting, ordering, checking and receiving deliveries, disposing of packaging, keeping the paperwork under control, returns, customer billing, maintaining inventories of small parts and regular consumables, reconciling and paying supplier accounts, visiting 'sheds' to pick up parts etc are very time consuming. And we spend a lot of money. But I don't think a generalised shopping cart is what we want or need. Maybe you need to do a bit of market segmentation and focus on a chosen segment's buying processes for various kinds of products.

[ProDave]

For me, the mention of "APP" turns me off.  If I want to do this sort of work I want a big screen, and proper multi window OS and proper input tools like a mouse and a real keyboard.  i.e. I want a fairly decent computer.

 

APP to me means a phone, the very last tool I would choose to use for such a task.

 

I manage such tasks quite easily with a web browser, a spreadheet and a word processor.

[SimonD]

I'm like @ProDave. No way would I use an app, must be desktop. I tried a similar solution last year that had an 'office' extension for desktop. The quote system was terrible as although it had a good database of products it was incomplete and out of date - the prices were nothing like I could get through my merchants. When I contacted their support about it they couldn't tell me why other than the system may not have the latest prices update yet..... Also, I quote a total job price, never for individual products, and my merchants have an online quote system that guarantees the price for 30 days.

 

The other issue is merchant terms and prices, which are not available on a generic search.

 

My quotes are all put together in my accounting software too as it makes life much easier for accounting and invoicing purposes.

 

So for me it's merchant online quotes based on my merchant account terms & prices, excel for additional calculations and accouting software for final quote.

 

With that all being said, the products are never the issue when it comes to quoting. It's calculating time and risk for each job and also covering contingencies in terms of both labour and materials/products. It's covering your arse on all of these things too!

Edited November 8, 2023 by SimonD

[SteamyTea]

How would this app deal with the individual discounts at local BMs?

 

Have you thought of 'doing an app' that can control heating, ventilation and lighting systems that is cloud free and will not be withdrawn from the market?

[75darren]

20 hours ago, JohnMo said:

Is this blatant advertising?

 

@JohnMo I have nothing to sell, I am creating something which will be free to use. I am asking for advice. 

[75darren]

19 hours ago, MR10 said:

@75darren how is this relevant to self builders who are the client/customers? Not sure you have the right audience.

Oh .. hmm I didn't know everyone here was a self builder. Whoops

[75darren]

19 hours ago, Alan Ambrose said:

OK as en ex-designer & software developer, I'll bite. Yep, you may be asking the wrong people, although self-builders often do spend a lot of money themselves, so they could be users. In f...

 

 

@Alan Ambrose Thank you so much for your thoughts. Despite me being embarrassed that I am pitching to the wrong crowd, my app idea may be useful to self builders and your reply has given me plenty to think about. You made some useful insights so thank you for those.

[75darren]

18 hours ago, ProDave said:

For me, the mention of "APP" turns me off.  If I want to do this sort of work I want a big screen, and proper multi window OS and proper input tools like a mouse and a real keyboard.  i.e. I want a fairly decent computer.

 

APP to me means a phone, the very last tool I would choose to use for such a task.

 

I manage such tasks quite easily with a web browser, a spreadheet and a word processor.

 

You are quite right and I am exactly the same. However, when use the word app, I refer to both a website and mobile app. Thanks for pointing that out because I tend to use app as a catch-all phrase which I need to be careful of.

[75darren]

16 hours ago, SimonD said:

I'm like @ProDave. No way would I use an app, must be desktop. I tried a similar solution last year that had an 'office' extension for desktop. The quote system was terrible as although it had a good database of products it was incomplete and out of date - the prices were nothing like I could get through my merchants. When I contacted their support about it they couldn't tell me why other than the system may not have the latest prices update yet..... Also, I quote a total job price, never for individual products, and my merchants have an online quote system that guarantees the price for 30 days.

 

The other issue is merchant terms and prices, which are not available on a generic search.

 

My quotes are all put together in my accounting software too as it makes life much easier for accounting and invoicing purposes.

 

So for me it's merchant online quotes based on my merchant account terms & prices, excel for additional calculations and accouting software for final quote.

 

With that all being said, the products are never the issue when it comes to quoting. It's calculating time and risk for each job and also covering contingencies in terms of both labour and materials/products. It's covering your arse on all of these things too!

 

My idea is to link directly to the actual shop, so everything would naturally be up to date. Quoting total job price is fine, the Quote feature I am developing has two options "lineitems' or 'total price' and the quote states to the client that the price is only applicable for the next 30 days (this is also editable).

 

"The other issue is merchant terms and prices, which are not available on a generic search." Everything is editable in my platform.

 

"My quotes are all put together in my accounting software too as it makes life much easier for accounting and invoicing purposes." When using my platform, the jobs are all linked to the quotes and invoices so auto-reminders can go out to the client (and you). When a client pays, your accounting software gets updated. Pending jobs are clearly shown on the calendar and everything is synced. All calculations are done automatically.

 

"It's calculating time and risk for each job and also covering contingencies in terms of both labour and materials/products. It's covering your arse on all of these things too!" This is a good point, I will think about this so I can improve my software.

 

To be clear, although I am building a comprehensive builder 'platform', my purpose for posting here was not to advertise, it was to ask advice about the specific quoting feature. I am generally a respectful person and would not spam. I actually emailed the forum admin before posting in the first place,

[75darren]

** Guys, I am sorry for posting in a self build forum, my mistake. I appreciate your feedback and I will take on board your thought and ideas. Wishing you all well.

[saveasteading]

I was an Estimator, doing nothing else, for about 7 years.

It's not easy.

Getting the price 'about right' is all very well.

We'd expect a priced bill of quantities to be +/- 2% between tenderers. Win or lose a job after a month if hard graft and research. Who does the design znd b o q?

With drawings but no b of q, then becomes 5%

With a Client brief but to be designed, that becomes 20% ( even 50%)  because design skills come into play.

 

I'm saying, your idea is OK for  a rough idea of cost but not for real business. 

But maybe I'm wrong. Good luck.

[75darren]

On 09/11/2023 at 11:30, saveasteading said:

I was an Estimator, doing nothing else, for about 7 years.

It's not easy.

Getting the price 'about right' is all very well.

We'd expect a priced bill of quantities to be +/- 2% between tenderers. Win or lose a job after a month if hard graft and research. Who does the design znd b o q?

With drawings but no b of q, then becomes 5%

With a Client brief but to be designed, that becomes 20% ( even 50%)  because design skills come into play.

 

I'm saying, your idea is OK for  a rough idea of cost but not for real business. 

But maybe I'm wrong. Good luck.

 

This is very interesting, I am going to DM you.