RHI up by a third (if you installed after 14 Dec 2016)

[richi]

Thus spake the Phoenix from the flames that engulfed Ice Energy...

 

10.18 pence/kWh…will apply to all new RHI registrations and anybody who registered for the RHI on or after 14th December 2016 will have their payments automatically uplifted (anybody who registered for the RHI prior to that date will remain on their pre-existing tariff).

…

Full details of the announcement can be found on the Ofgem website. 

[IanR]

The Ofgem website caveats the changes with 'pending Parliamentary approval'. 

 

Since the changes are due to come in 20.09 do we know if Parliaments done their bit yet? 

[IanR]

On 9/5/2017 at 19:34, IanR said:

Since the changes are due to come in 20.09 do we know if Parliaments done their bit yet? 

 

Parliament must have done its bit as the increased rates did come in for any applications registered after 14.12.2016.

 

But energy caps were also introduced for any registrations after 20.09. Max payment will now be capped to 20,000 kWh per annum

[joe90]

I did not think RHI was worth bothering with, does this make much difference?.

[Jeremy Harris]

3 hours ago, joe90 said:

I did not think RHI was worth bothering with, does this make much difference?.

 

Depends on how much heating your house needs, and it's also important that it doesn't need cooling (a combined heating and cooling heat pump isn't RHI eligible).

 

The main issue is that to claim RHI for seven years the installation has to be undertaken by an approved installer and the kit has to be heat only.

 

In our case, with our small ASHP, the additional cost of the approved installation was going to be at least a couple of thousand pounds, and the RHI payments were going to be around £80 a year or so, for 7 years.  So, if we went for an approved installation we would have incurred an additional cost of at least £2000, in order to get a payment totalling less than £600 over a 7 year period.

 

In order to break even, with the RHI just recovering the additional installation cost, our heating requirement would need to be more than three times higher than it is, and even then it wouldn't make sense, taking the 7 year payment time into account.

 

I can't say that I think this change will change things, at least for those who have pretty low heating requirements.  The RHI is only really of benefit to those whose houses, at least on paper, have a fairly high heating requirement.

[SteamyTea]

It may make sense for old rural housing that is currently using solid fuel.

I seem to remember that if you had gas you could not get RHI.  May have dreamt that.

[jack]

12 hours ago, JSHarris said:

Depends on how much heating your house needs, and it's also important that it doesn't need cooling (a combined heating and cooling heat pump isn't RHI eligible).

 

Strictly, I believe that cooling mode capability is acceptable, as long as it isn't enabled. Our unit, for example, is eligible for the RHI. It has a cooling mode, but it's disabled at the factory and needs to be enabled via service mode. 

 

It would be feasible to install the unit with the mode disabled, get the RHI, and then enable it. From memory, the instructions for enabling cooling mode were on a card in the instructions that came with the ASHP!

[Stones]

21 minutes ago, jack said:

 

Strictly, I believe that cooling mode capability is acceptable, as long as it isn't enabled. Our unit, for example, is eligible for the RHI. It has a cooling mode, but it's disabled at the factory and needs to be enabled via service mode. 

 

It would be feasible to install the unit with the mode disabled, get the RHI, and then enable it. From memory, the instructions for enabling cooling mode were on a card in the instructions that came with the ASHP!

 

Same with our ASHP (Mitsubishi Ecodan) It has the cooling function disabled to make it eligible for RHI. Flip a dip switch in the control module and it is activated / control options in master controller become live.

[IanR]

16 hours ago, joe90 said:

I did not think RHI was worth bothering with, does this make much difference?.

 

It could make enough difference.

 

The RHI is based upon the as-built SAP/EPC heat demand figure for the property. The "as-built" term is a little ambiguous of course, it's really still a theoretical figure as no physical metering or testing is needed. If you choose not to go to the expense of an the air permeability test (as is your right for a single property development) then the default figure of 15 m³/m²/h at 50Pa would go forward to your SAP calcs and if you haven't had the true Ψ-values calculated for your thermal bridging (as most people haven't) then default values would also be used. You'd probably find the SAP calculated heat demand figure to be a little higher than you were aiming for, but alas, that is the one that Ofgem insist on using for calculating RHI.

 

I've just had a play on the Ofgem RHI Calculator and picking some numbers at random, that to me do not feel to unreasonable, ie. 7500 kWh space heating + 2500 kWh hot water, heat demand per annum, then for an ASHP with an SPF of 4.2  the RHI would contribute £5460 to your heating system costs over the 7 years.

 

The SPF of the ASHP does have a significant impact on the RHI payment.

 

If you were to allow a budget of say £1500 for the installation of a non-MCS installed ASHP, then the break even figure for the MCS installed version is just under £7K. Considering only the ASHP and not the cylinders, pumps and valves that both installs require I think it is possible to get an MCS installed ASHP for £7K.

Edited September 29, 2017 by IanR

[joe90]

Thanks Ian, makes sense but I already have an ASHP that I bought on fleabay for £850 brand new!, I don't think anyone would sign off my install anyway. It's a bit like feed in tariffs for PV, I am not bothering with PV either, I have spent the £5G on my new toy anyway.

[IanR]

1 minute ago, joe90 said:

Thanks Ian, makes sense but I already have an ASHP that I bought on fleabay for £850 brand new!, I don't think anyone would sign off my install anyway.

 

I agree, an MCS installer is unlikely to install an ASHP you purchased from elsewhere, even if it is an MCS Approved ASHP.

 

You could always sell it again on eBay, if the numbers work out and you'd rather hand over the install and commissioning to a 3rd party.

[le-cerveau]

Just had a look at the Sep 17 rules and it says that an heat pump may also provide cooling:

 

"To be eligible for the Domestic RHI, all heat pumps must distribute heat using a liquid (normally through radiators or underfloor heating) to provide space heating, and may also be used for domestic hot water heating. They may also provide cooling. Heat pumps that distribute heat using the air are not eligible under the scheme."

 

So the way I read it you don't have to have the cooling function disabled and "cheat the system later"

[Alexphd1]

I am certinaĺy going to look into it just before I install my eBay ashp as I may have another job for the ashp. But will be installing as much as i can do ie cylinder pipes to ashp location etc. If the figures don't work back to plan a. 

[IanR]

19 minutes ago, le-cerveau said:

Just had a look at the Sep 17 rules and it says that an heat pump may also provide cooling:

 

"To be eligible for the Domestic RHI, all heat pumps must distribute heat using a liquid (normally through radiators or underfloor heating) to provide space heating, and may also be used for domestic hot water heating. They may also provide cooling. Heat pumps that distribute heat using the air are not eligible under the scheme."

 

So the way I read it you don't have to have the cooling function disabled and "cheat the system later"

 

Good spot. Elsewhere in the Essential Guide for Applicants it specifically states water cooling

 

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/system/files/docs/2017/09/essentialguideforapplicants_rpiia_september2017.pdf

 

So, cooling via UFH is OK, but if you plan to cool incoming air through the MVHR with a wet duct heat exchanger then perhaps not.

Edited September 29, 2017 by IanR

[le-cerveau]

54 minutes ago, IanR said:

So, cooling via UFH is OK, but if you plan to cool incoming air through the MVHR with a wet duct heat exchanger then perhaps not.

 

The way I read it is, they are just ignoring the cooling, but it does talk about not using a duct heater as the 'heating' must be fully hydronic, so potentially FCU's could be an issue if anybody had/wanted one of those.  This may be the issue as most ASHP installers don't want to consider UFH (cooling) but want you to have a FCU (condensation concerns), they then also run them as part of the heating system so excluding it from the MCS scheme.

[SteamyTea]

Can you sell your eBay heat pumps to an MCS installer?

[Alexphd1]

I dont think our ASHP are ERP certified, i think thats the reason we got them so cheap!