Is a gym considered a habitable room for planning purposes?

[Loz100]

[Loz100]

When we extended our property years ago our architect listed an additional room on our ground floor as a gym. It is actually used as a home office for my husband but the council have advised that it was stipulated as a gym at planning and therefore is not entitled to the same minimum distancing as a habitable room. 
I am beside myself as my husband can spend 10 hrs a day in there and the want to build a bungalow 2m from our window.

[JohnMo]

Think you have answered your own question.

[Loz100]

So a gym is not considered a habitable room? But a hobby room is? 
I am trying to ascertain whether a gym would still be considered a habitable room as when it was a gym we spent hours in there between the household members.

 

[JohnMo]

To argue the case you would possibly need to know why it's stated as a gym and not something else.

 

For example do you have heating in the gym, is the floor and walls treated the same as the rest of the house? The issues you have is the drawing as presented,m, shows the external wall to built to the same spec as the garage, so not insulated. So it's more like a sub division of the garage, and not within the insulated envelope, like a normal internal room.

 

To be classed as habitable room the walls and floor and ceiling or roof would all need to comply with building regs. Unfortunately as presented they look more like a garage not an internal room.

 

 

[Loz100]

When we extended our property years ago our architect listed an additional room on our ground floor as a gym. It is actually used as a home office for my husband but the council have advised that it was stipulated as a gym at planning and therefore is not entitled to the same minimum distancing as a habitable room. 
I am beside myself as my husband can spend 10 hrs a day in there and the want to build a bungalow 2m from our window.

[Loz100]

Hi

Thank you for your reply.

The room is insulated and heated. It is like any other room in our house. 
carpeted, plastered lighting etc etc 

It is has been used as my husbands office since covid lock down as he had to work from home & is often in there for 10 hours a day. 
The council however are stating that a gym which is one of the rooms former uses is not entitled to the same rights as a study and it would have to be listed as a study at the time of planning consent. 
A hobby room is offered the same rights as a study so I cannot see the reasoning behind this.

It meets all building regulations for a study and has always been used for many hours a day even when it was a gym. I thought that was part of the definition of a habitable room so now I am just confused. 
I appreciate you taking time out of your day to assist me. 
Many thanks 

[JohnMo]

As far as planning is concerned the room is designated the same as the garage.

 

Have read up on here, it may point you in the right direction and you may be able to apply for something retrospectively

 

https://www.fmb.org.uk/find-a-builder/ultimate-guides-to-home-renovation/garage-conversions-the-ultimate-guide.html#:~:text=Search-,Do I need planning permission%3F,to make a planning application.

[nod]

At the worst you could apply to convert your “Gym” into an office 

John M hit The nail on the head 

Your first route would be to look at the fabric of the room 

Is it more like a habitable room than a garage Heating plaster etc 

[saveasteading]

40 minutes ago, Loz100 said:

The room is insulated..  like any other room in our house. 

Are you sure? The drawing shows a space taken out of a garage, or at least to thd said construction, so like a store. Whatever it was intended for, the architect has shown it as a thinner wall than the house, to the same construction as the garage.

The use of the word gym in the planning application may even have been deliberate, to minimise construction  and cost.

 

Can you check the outer wall thickness and construction? Easiest done at the window.

[Loz100]

When we extended our property years ago our architect listed an additional room on our ground floor as a gym. It is actually used as a home office for my husband but the council have advised that it was stipulated as a gym at planning and therefore is not entitled to the same minimum distancing as a habitable room. 
I am beside myself as my husband can spend 10 hrs a day in there and the want to build a bungalow 2m from our window.

 

 

 

 

The internal windowsill depth is 200mm

The builder knew we may be using the room as a study in the future and it was being used as a study when the completion certificate was issued. 
It has a full radiator, electrical sockets, lighting & carpeting etc. 

[Loz100]

When we extended our property years ago our architect listed an additional room on our ground floor as a gym. It is actually used as a home office for my husband but the council have advised that it was stipulated as a gym at planning and therefore is not entitled to the same minimum distancing as a habitable room. 
I am beside myself as my husband can spend 10 hrs a day in there and the want to build a bungalow 2m from our window.

[saveasteading]

 

9 minutes ago, Loz100 said:

 

The internal windowsill depth is 200mm

The builder knew 

 

And how does that compare with the main house?

200mm is unlikely to be indulated to full house construction. 

 

The builder is not relevant unfortunately. Telling the planners one thing and doing something else is more a problem than an answer.

[Mr Punter]

It looks like you have about 1m to the boundary.  The new building will probably also be set 1m, so you have a 2m separation distance.  You can install a 2m high fence on the boundary and that will prevent overlooking, providing the proposed bungalow floor level is similar to your ground floor.

[Loz100]

The original bedroom window sills are 180mm deep and the new bedroom windows are 230mm deep. 
 

It is a bungalow so overlooking is not a concern but the lack of light and oppressive feel are more of a concern. 
This is not a landing or bathroom window but a room where my husband can spend 10 hours a day. 
🥹
 

 

 

 

 

When we extended our property years ago our architect listed an additional room on our ground floor as a gym. It is actually used as a home office for my husband but the council have advised that it was stipulated as a gym at planning and therefore is not entitled to the same minimum distancing as a habitable room. 
I am beside myself as my husband can spend 10 hrs a day in there and the want to build a bungalow 2m from our window.

[joe90]

If you put a window 1m away from your boundary the neighbour is entitled to put a 2m high fence on the boundary 🤷‍♂️ at least another 1m is better than that surely. I had a neighbour who had a window close to our boundary and complained when I was going to erect  a conservatory as she didnt want us looking into her house, I pointed out it was currently a patio and so nothing was going to change regarding overlooking and it was her that placed a window in that position (she bought a blind ).

[torre]

If you'd specified this as a habitable room from the outset, the planners would probably have raised overlooking concerns and asked you to amend the plans accordingly. It does sound like at least some of your architect, builder, and self already had another use in mind, so one has to wonder why this wasn't specified as a habitable room?

Look at it from your neighbour's perspective - when you applied for planning did they expect someone looking out over their property from a meter away for 10 hours a day?

 

 

We all grumble about planners and hope to be treated fairly and that's what this sounds like - the planners let you build a metre from your neighbour and now they may allow your neighbour to do the same. Imagine if your neighbour had built the same extension first? I don't think you'd want to have your own plans refused.

 

[Loz100]

It is not a 2m fence. They are building a bungalow with a height of 5.3m. This will breach the right to light guidance.That is not considered at planning though so just trying to ascertain whether my study which used to be a gym used for my yoga and Pilates can be classified as a habitable room.

Or guidance regarding whether planning permission would have been required to change room usage from a gym to a study when it meets all appropriate building regs. 

[Loz100]

We do not currently have any neighbours our house is set alone with land adjacent to us. 

[Loz100]

It was used as my yoga room but I am unable to do that now and when covid hit my husband started working from home and needed a study. No ulterior motive at planning just circumstances have changed. 

[joe90]

Then if you think you have a “right to light” then make this point to the planners and if valid they must take notice of it in their decision making.

[Mr Punter]

Planners are often not keen to allow windows in habitable rooms at the side of a property for just the reason that it may prevent future development of the neighbouring land.  I suspect that is why the room is labeled as "gym" rather than "study".

[Temp]

I'm sure that even the 1m from the boundary "rule" is a guideline and not mandatory. Its to discourage building even closer giving a "terraced" look.

 

To successfully argue with the planners you need to find written copies of  local planning policies and check every letter of the wording. Even then if you find the proposal would breach the guidelines the wording might allow the planners discretion.

 

Can you afford to hire a planning consultant? If so ask one to look at the plans and possibly quote to submit an objection for you (if the consultation is still open).

 

1 hour ago, Loz100 said:

but the council have advised that it was stipulated as a gym at planning and therefore is not entitled to the same minimum distancing as a habitable room. 

 

I believe this argument is wrong. I don't believe you need Planning Permission to change it from gym to office so they should take into account its current use as an office which is considered a habitable room. Make sure they are aware it was "converted" from a gym to a home office x years ago and therefore should be considered a habitable room. 

[AliG]

Would it not be too late.

 

If your neighbour has already put in a planning application, can you then make an application that makes things difficult for them afterwards. I don't think so, but I may be wrong. If they have not actually applied yet then you can try and get in first.

 

I am to some extent of the mindset though that if you can build 1m from the boundary, why can't they. Otherwise you effectively end up owning some of their land by building close to it. I don't think  who got there first is relevant. If people don't want things built close to them then they need to buy the land to stop it. I know this will feel harsh, but I think it is fair.

 

The right to light law requires 20 years of uninterrupted use, which I suspect takes what I am saying above into consideration.

[kandgmitchell]

22 hours ago, Temp said:

I believe this argument is wrong. I don't believe you need Planning Permission to change it from gym to office so they should take into account its current use as an office which is considered a habitable room. Make sure they are aware it was "converted" from a gym to a home office x years ago and therefore should be considered a habitable room. 

I'd second that. The dwelling is the planning unit and a home gym and a home office are both legitimate uses within a dwelling so you can use it for either. Converting a garage to a gym/office would only require permission if the garage use was secured by a condition for parking purposes. But that is bye the bye , Temp is right, make it clear to the planners that the development will have a significant impact on your use of the room as it stands at present. Ask if they can request that the developer carries out an impact assessment on light levels to this room, prior to them considering the application. Speak to your councillor to help put pressure on the planners to consider the situation.