Fitting a 2nd Hand UPVC Door

[Onoff]

A while back I was given by my mate John the chippy, his old UPVC front door. More a case of srounged as when he said he was having new windows I said "Can I have your old door?".

 

So he got the fitters to carefully take the old one out. Slight complication as it originally had a full size glazed panel to the lock side. Once the door was out John ran a fine tipped circular up it and separated the door from the side panel.

 

Yesterday morning I thought on a bit of a whim I'd fit it. I've done two windows previously so it'd be a doddle,  wouldn't it?

 

(The plan was to get my lad to help for it but he was feeling rough from a pre uni jab. I started thinking he'd appear, eager to help...).

 

First order of the day was to widen the gap. 9" grinder and diamond disc. Gap was circa 33" and frame circa 35". OMG the dust! Managed to do this with the old door still in. (Madam had gone to Bluewater which was handy ). Went in as far as I could then had to fettle here and there with the comb chisel and use the block saw on the hinge side the full height.

 

Jesus it's HEAVY to move on your own!

 

Had to rope in the grown up nephew who'd only popped round to "borrow some packs". A fair exchange as he ended up popping back and forth and finally left at 10pm. (There were a couple of beers involved).

 

Cut the cill, laid it in on a strip of DPC and ran a bead of mastic along the upstand at the back. Got the frame in (with glazed door fitted), dead plumb and level in all planes. Wedged it and applied some foam. All looked really good.....

 

The door was 10mm lower lock side, wouldn't lock or even OPEN on occasion. Opening the door and the frame moved dislodging the packs tearing the foam bond and generally going to pot. Then the door wouldn't open fully as it hit the really uneven quarry tiles! Much levering with the crow bar and swearing! Had to saw through the previously applied foam. 

 

In desperation phoned John. Difficult him not being able to see it. 

 

Messed around with packs under the cill. Culminated in levering the hinge side under the cill and it all "came right". I'm sure the frame has gone from being a square to a parrallelogram to make it all work but its very, very subtle. Is that how it normally works out? Was able to eventually close and lock the door. Whacked some foam in and went to bed!

 

This morning: It actually opens and shuts pretty well. To lock I need to put my foot against the bottom of the door. Some lubrication should help there.

 

 

 

But...it's sitting a bit high tbh. Could drop it a bit I reckon. As the door opens it measures from 25 to 50mm to the uneven quarry tiles. Is there a recommended gap here?

 

 

Reckon this could all drop down:

 

 

For the gap at the top I have some clip together 20mm extender (Wickes) incompatible with the original frame but nothing some silicon and screws won't sort. Whatever extrusions around the frame that were originally there have long since been planed or broken off.

 

Reckon it'll be the saw through the foam again this morning and door OUT! 

 

No frame fixings in as yet btw.

 

Any tips?

[PeterW]

You need a minimum of 6 frame fixings in it - should be below each hinge and directly opposite. Solid pack the hinge side top and bottom too. 

 

It could drop a bit but tbh I wouldn't as unless the cill is a trip hazard you will be cursing as it scoops up ever last bit of crap as you open it ..

 

Top gaps can have frame extenders but we used to just put drips on them for rendered houses - thin celotex foam in the gap or use gun foam and then cut back and redo the render. 

[Onoff]

14 minutes ago, PeterW said:

You need a minimum of 6 frame fixings in it - should be below each hinge and directly opposite. Solid pack the hinge side top and bottom too. 

 

It could drop a bit but tbh I wouldn't as unless the cill is a trip hazard you will be cursing as it scoops up ever last bit of crap as you open it ..

 

Top gaps can have frame extenders but we used to just put drips on them for rendered houses - thin celotex foam in the gap or use gun foam and then cut back and redo the render. 

 

Ta.  Should I run a strip of DPC all around the frame? I mean it's a plastic frame so why?

 

And under the cill. It seems pointless to try and sit it on a bed if mortar now when I've to faff about with packing and levering. Was thinking do this afterwards with the foam gun or mortar gun.

 

And lastly low expansion foam or "normal"?

 

Cheers

Edited September 3, 2017 by Onoff

[ProDave]

I fitted a second hand quality timber door to our garage. I fixed the hinge side of the frame solid first, making sure it was plumb before I even thought about fixing the catch side.  Final adjustment was done adjusting the hinges to get it to close nicely.

[Onoff]

1 hour ago, ProDave said:

I fitted a second hand quality timber door to our garage. I fixed the hinge side of the frame solid first, making sure it was plumb before I even thought about fixing the catch side.  Final adjustment was done adjusting the hinges to get it to close nicely.

 

What did you use to pack? I've got these plastic shims or 50x50x3 galv washers:

 

 

These are the hinges. Seems you have to unscrew the pin, take the hinge (door?) off and screw / unscrew the middle bit.

 

 

Might need to do that as it's a bit close here:

 

 

Decided against lowering the door.

 

Going to need some making good!

 

 

 

Edited September 3, 2017 by Onoff

[dpmiller]

there's not much room for adjustment between door and frame generally- anything more than a tiny adjustment at the hinge end and the door will either bind in the frame or miss the seals (or latch keepers!), in my experience.

If door and frame matched previously, leave the hinges alone  and just shim and pack the frame til all is well.

[PeterW]

48 minutes ago, Onoff said:

 

Might need to do that as it's a bit close here:

 

Standard way to sort that is to use a frame extender on the hinge side - makes it so the door can properly open past 90 degrees and also allows where a door is against a wall that there is no issue with the handle hitting the wall when it's open fully

[CC45]

Ive done 3 plastic doors - the most harrowing experience Ive ever had on site.  Vowed never again - and I havent.  It was great watching the professionals doing it.

 

The frame has no real structural strength so it just flexes all over the place.  Wooden frames and doors are easy in comparison.

 

Good luck!

[PeterW]

12 minutes ago, CC45 said:

The frame has no real structural strength so it just flexes all over the place.  Wooden frames and doors are easy in comparison.

 

 

Thats concerning as a uPVC frame should have steel or grp reinforcing in the sections to stop this. 

 

Most people seem to try and tighten the frame to the brickwork and find it starts to move and bend - put packers behind each hinge point and below each fixing and you will be fine. Also pack under the hinge jamb as that is the one that takes the load. 

[Onoff]

Sorted in the end. Had to drill through the galvanised internal frame to get fixings in!

 

 

Needs some trim, a bit of pb up the rhs etc.

[Onoff]

Amazingly I managed to get 99% of the superglue off that had bonded on the original trim. This was caked in it. I used a couple of brand new Stanley blades almost as an old school wood scraper. Drawn gently up the length of the frame it takes off the high glue "ridge". Finished off with a rubber made from a block of scrap PIR (slightly abrasive) dipped in No Nonsense UPVC cleaner. It's so tidy I will only need trim to cover the cut bricks.

 

 

[Onoff]

I've a nom 25mm gap under the cill and above the DPM to fill.

 

 

What should I use? 

 

Expanding foam

Mortar

Celcon block slices 

Brick slices 

Timber

Combination of the above

 

?

 

Cheers

[Crofter]

Is there any weight on it?

[Onoff]

7 hours ago, Crofter said:

Is there any weight on it?

 

The weight is I guess distributed on the frame anchors at the sides. (M10 but I might redo at M12). Before the sill packs were removed the side gaps were sprayed with water and low expansion foam filled. Left to go off that really provides some "stiction"!

 

Another half thought was foam between DPC and underside of sill or even EPS with maybe a solid say cloaking board, Asbestolux strip across the front.

 

As of last night (Tues) I noted it's a little harder to lift the handle inside to bring the "claw" bolt into play. Locking with the key is still easy though not as effortless as it was Sun/Mon.

[dpmiller]

I'd have wanted it fully supported accross the bottom (esp the ends) before any fixings were added, personally.

[Onoff]

15 minutes ago, dpmiller said:

I'd have wanted it fully supported accross the bottom (esp the ends) before any fixings were added, personally.

 

Pretty confident I can tweak it up with a crow bar and lump of timber and slip packs in, it's just what to use! Favouring the plastic trouser shims each, a strip of something "hard" across the front then go nuts with the low expansion foam from inside. 

[PeterW]

I hadn't realised that there was nothing under the jambs ..?!

 

you need to pack under the corners with something solid - packers is fine - and then you can foam the rest of the cill. It's irrelevant as to whether you use M10 or M12, they are holding the frame square and in the opening but should not be holding it up as they aren't designed to do that.