What is this residue in the attic? asbestos or something else?

[Gus Potter]

Has anyone got any ideas on this?

 

I have a project; two story semi detached house built circa 1935 with a sandstone exterior skin , probably brick inner skin, no cavity thus it has solid walls externally, internally a set of brick load bearing spine walls. Roof is traditional cut timber with sarking boards. The non load bearing walls on the first floor are lath and plaster on timber studs.

 

What I'm doing is demolishing a load bearing internal wall on the first floor which holds up the attic floor joists thus I need to put in a beam and some other structural support. To intall the beam requires disruption to the first floor ceiling which is attached to the attic joists.

 

I know this about the building.

 

1 The Client has owned it for say two years.

 

2/ The roof may have been reslated/ repaired but this was a good time ago, maybe 30 years, possibly longer.

 

3/ The attic has been lined out but not a habitable space and accessed via drop down ladder.

 

4/ The roof was insulated with glass wool by British gas.. I can see their warning sign not to walk on the glass wool. I think British Gas stopped insulating lofts some 30 + years ago.. maybe wrong.. does anyone know?

 

5/ I know that old under slating roofing felts can contain asbestos and they were still used well into the 1980's.

 

6/ In the last couple of years the roof has suffered from significant leaks and the new owner, my Client has to get folk in to fix what they descibe as a couple of "floods" from roof leaks.

 

7/ There is no record in the title deeds of the roof having been sprayed for wood worm etc, but that does not mean to say it has not been in the past.

 

8/ The building has no cavities thus cavity wall insulation can be ruled out.

 

As part of my survey and design I go into the attic and open a small door which lets me see into the roof void.. I observe the following.

 

 

The above show a white residue on the underside of the sarking and on top of the glass wool.

 

 

The above shows same residue build up on top of what looks like an old tank overflow pipe.

 

 

The above shows more residue on the same glass wool but there was also a plastic lid lying on top of the glass wool that has residue in it.

 

 

The above is closer view of the residue on the plastic lid.

 

Usually I put big warning notes on my drawings if I suspect asbestos may be present, the age of the this house.. well it will probably be lurking somewhere.

 

What I also noticed was that there was a small gap between the sarking boards, could not get good photo without disturbing the residue so stayed well clear. But I could see that through the gap there was some kind of sooty black fiberous material, don't know what it was but it didn't look like old bituminous felt... maybe it was just local.. I don't know.

 

In cases like this I always recommend that an Asbestos specialist survey is carried out.. but I'm naturally curious and want to learn / expand my knowledge.

 

The thing is the residue is quite a heavy build up, so maybe not asbestos... anyway Asbestos is not water soluble

 

My thoughts so far on what it could be are:

 

A/ Is it salts washing off the underside of the roof slates, yes sometimes you do get salts on the slates.. but never seen it this bad. But for this to happen the roofing felt would need to be seriously degraded?

 

B/ The residue on top of the plastic lid means that the residue can't have come from the glass wool?

 

C/ If the roof timbers have had a good soaking has the water washed out possible wood work spray.

 

D/ Has loft space been sprayed and what I'm seeing is over residue from the overspray.. they must have gone to town with the chemicals?

 

The thoughts of BH folk would be much appreciated.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[saveasteading]

Can I be the first to say ' I don't know'?

 

Normally that's a useless comment, but I've seen a lot of attics but never this, and I would be cautious too.

 

The sarking boards having gaps would be normal for air flow but pointless with a bitumen felt covering. 

 

I'm going to plump for the white being the residues from rot.

 

The fibreglass looks quite new . We know that electric companies have been ticking boxes by subsidising insulation, so probably bg too.

[Kelvin]

Could it be white mould? Given all the leaks you might expect some mould anyway. 

[Gus Potter]

40 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

Can I be the first to say ' I don't know'?

Thanks for chipping in. I need a bit of help here to understand what I might be seeing.

 

I was wondering..  am I missing something that is obvious.. sometimes you can't see the woods from the trees.

 

42 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

I'm going to plump for the white being the residues from rot.

That is a good point. 

 

To be honest I touched the residue on the plastic lid (then followed all the safetey protocals) It felt like salts that you would get growing out of say masonry. It was like a powder, and not binding together and not gritty fealing. The thing is that there is a lot of it

 

Could be rot but there where no indications of mycelium growth and the assocaited root propegation or fruiting bodies either dead or alive. The roof timbers all looked sound.

 

1 hour ago, saveasteading said:

The fibreglass looks quite new .

Yes in relative terms.. the thing for me was that the plastic cover that was lying about had it on top.. so I think it can't have come from below.

 

I have seen lofts where there is snow type stuff lying about but that is often when they have had cavity wall insulation installed. This looks totally different.

 

I'm stuck to identify what this is?

 

If the Asbestos folk come and test it then they may say.. no asbestos.

 

But my Client has young kids so if it is some kind of chemical I can't take the risk and I can't expose the Builder to the risk either.. I have seen what I see and professionally I cant "un see it"

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BadgerBadger]

There was a similar(ish) photo on a roofing FB group recently, and multiple people suggested salts. Which fits if you know there's water problems, but as you say if you "don't know" so it needs confirming properly.

[FuerteStu]

From the arrangement of the residue it appears to have been airborne.. 

 

Is there a bathroom extractor not connected to outside? I've seen one installed in a bathroom with a flexi vent that just dumped into the void above and that created all kinds of pretty mold, stalagmites and stalagtites. 

[Dave Jones]

send it off for asbestos testing just to be on safe side, its a cheap service.

[saveasteading]

The second photo appears to show damp and either mould or crystals forming stalactites from the sarking boards. The pipe looks green.

Is there any ventilation?

 

Edit. Have found this about white mould.https://kpmrestoration.com/is-white-mold-dangerous/

Edited September 10, 2023 by saveasteading

[joe90]

Yes I concur with an asbestos survey first off but think like others this is white mild from a damp atmosphere, a few years ago I worked on a bungalow that had similar, not as bad, but complete lack of ventilation and a leaky roof. I stripped the roof, created eaves vents, ridge vents and fitted breathable felt and re tiled, no further problem.

[SteamyTea]

Who you going to call

Mold Busters

 

https://www.bustmold.com/resources/about-mold/where-to-look-for-mold/mold-on-insulation/

[Gus Potter]

Thank you everyone for giving me the benefit of your advice. Very much appreciated.

 

Looks like some type of white mould.

 

Will get it checked out and also check for asbestos just in case.

 

Thanks again folks.

[saveasteading]

And report back please. 

It that is the issue then is ventilation going to be feasible?

 

[joe90]

With the house I mentioned above it was funny that the owners told me a condition of their mortgage was to have soffit vents installed, those little round ones every few feet, however when I stripped the roof the wall extended right up to the back of the bitumen felt so the eaves vents did no good at all, I had to remove the top row on bricks around the whole building.