Onoff Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 1 minute ago, Barney12 said: That looks bloody ideal. I'm down to 22 circuits if I combine 9 and 11 as per Nick's advise? Will he supply me (my sparky is labour only with me supplying all materials)? The next challenge is I then need to house: 8 channel dimmer with 1amp MCB's (Total: 16 ways) 2 x 12 channel relay with MCB's (Total 48 ways) (Note the actual dimmer and relay modules are an 8 way block) Talk with Dave and discuss with your sparks. Mention lads from TEF have put you onto him. I suspect he will only supply to your sparks or upon receipt of something from him even if an email etc. https://www.sbstradesales.co.uk/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney12 Posted August 29, 2017 Author Share Posted August 29, 2017 2 minutes ago, Onoff said: Talk with Dave and discuss with your sparks. Mention lads from TEF have put you onto him. I suspect he will only supply to your sparks or upon receipt of something from him even if an email etc. https://www.sbstradesales.co.uk/ Ta. Will drop him an email. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Alphonsox Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 Note that SBS will only deal with those they consider "trade". Personally I won't fit kit that I can't get replacements for - This was a deal breaker for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 4 minutes ago, Alphonsox said: Note that SBS will only deal with those they consider "trade". Personally I won't fit kit that I can't get replacements for - This was a deal breaker for me. A fair concern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 42 minutes ago, ProDave said: The issue with that is "Manufacturers instructions" If MK say you can only use their mcb's in their board and no other make, then by fitting a different make you have potentially taken on the task of type approving the whole consumer unit. Yes it's a load of baloney in the real world. If a crabtree mcb is happy to work alongside a load of other crabtree mcb's then it's highly unlikely it would suddenly catch fire if you put it in between two MK mcb's (assuming it would fit) but by doing so you would have been assumed to have taken on the task of verifying it is safe. It is indeed a load of baloney, as a part of the idea of DIN standardisation (i.e. all units that fit on a DIN rail, and within a DIN dimensioned enclosure, with standardised cut outs, are interchangeable) was to remove the ability of manufacturers to hold people to ransom by creating a series of monopolies, that tied consumers in to a particular brand, and so breach anti-trust laws. Given that the standards don't just relate to the dimensions of the modules, but also relate to their maximum allowable temperature, performance, fire resistance etc, there is no technical reason not to "mix and match". I still think it looks dreadful, and far prefer everything to be the same manufacturer, just for looks. However, take my workshop as an example. There is a DP RCBO, five MCBs, and three contactors in the same box. With the best will in the world I couldn't have used the same manufacturer for all of these, simply because some manufacturers don't make some of the components. They all fit perfectly, because of DIN standardisation, and all work OK, again because of standardisation. Interestingly, the manufacturer of the enclosure doesn't mention anything about what make of DIN modules have to be used in the enclosure, either. As the enclosure seems to have been made in Italy, they may well have been aware of the hot water they could have got into by making a statement that effectively contravened the whole rational behind DIN standardisation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeSharp01 Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 12 hours ago, ProDave said: The only thing making you fit an rcd is the <50mm rule. Put all cables on the smoke circuit >50mm deep or in earthed metal conduit and you can indeed connect them to an mcb with no rcd protrction. Hi @ProDave Just to clarify I have a split board with an RCD for each half I assume I don't need a separate RCD for each circuit where I don't meet the 50mm rule. The idea was to put the smoke alarms, fridge, emergency lighting and security system on one side and everything else on the other half so as to protect the sensitive side from trips on the everyday side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 8 minutes ago, MikeSharp01 said: Hi @ProDave Just to clarify I have a split board with an RCD for each half I assume I don't need a separate RCD for each circuit where I don't meet the 50mm rule. The idea was to put the smoke alarms, fridge, emergency lighting and security system on one side and everything else on the other half so as to protect the sensitive side from trips on the everyday side. Quite right. One RCD is enough no need to fit a second one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney12 Posted August 30, 2017 Author Share Posted August 30, 2017 12 hours ago, Alphonsox said: Note that SBS will only deal with those they consider "trade". Personally I won't fit kit that I can't get replacements for - This was a deal breaker for me. Hmmm thats a fair point. I guess getting a few spares in is a potential solution. Why have the major manufacturers not adopted the double pole/no fly lead design? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 18 minutes ago, ProDave said: Quite right. One RCD is enough no need to fit a second one. I am with Mike on this one. I do not want *all* the lights out due to a dodgy fuse in an ipad charger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 36 minutes ago, Ferdinand said: I am with Mike on this one. I do not want *all* the lights out due to a dodgy fuse in an ipad charger. That's one reason I went for an all-RCBO board. With RCD protection, in addition to current overload protection, on every individual circuit, only that circuit trips in the event of an earth leakage fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 26 minutes ago, Barney12 said: Hmmm thats a fair point. I guess getting a few spares in is a potential solution. Why have the major manufacturers not adopted the double pole/no fly lead design? More popular in Australia and on the Continent. Also their "makes" are household names to them just like our MK, Crabtree etc are here. (Don't think our "regs" are the "best in the world" btw). Manufacturers are going to carry on plugging their sad, tired old ranges / designs if there's demand, look at British Leyland! It's a case I think that "we" are catching up and it will become more common. Hager for example. Note though the absence of anything above 32A: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 I'm just considering this and had thought about the double decker approach with the top 10 way board being main switch and all the RCBOs, and then the bottom being a bare board with single RCD and MCBs across the remaining ways. That would split things nicely with oven, hob, alarm etc just being on the MCB circuits and power and light remaining on the RCBOs. I think it may just add to complexity though.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney12 Posted August 30, 2017 Author Share Posted August 30, 2017 Doing a bit of research this morning I came across the Lewden boards and RCBO's. The boards are designed for the taller RCBO's and although you've got the negative of the separate neutral and earth tails they are competitively priced compared to the mainstream makes. I.e. https://www.superlecdirect.com/switchgear-and-control-c9/lewden-amendment-3-fuseboards-s247/p-qfsmc20enc-lewden-21-way-modular-metal-enclosure/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 I've got a Lewden outdoor unit that we fitted as a part of the site supply installation. The nice thing about it is that it has a fair bit of room inside, which makes it easier to get the wiring laid out neatly. The Crabtree CU in the house was a PITA, as space is very tight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 (edited) For the CU I bought about 3 weeks ago I went with Hager but bottled out on the RCBOs - went for a split board with each half with a pair of RCDs and MCBs on the circuits. I decided to go with Hager as a quality brand, but it was a short notice purchase and the RCBOs were about £28 vs <£5 for the MCBs. That was beyond the balance point in that situation. More research needed next time. Ferdinand Edited August 30, 2017 by Ferdinand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 I've gotten Hager from here before: http://www.gil-lec.co.uk/circuit-protection/consumer-units-accessories/hager-consumer-units-accessories 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 10 minutes ago, Onoff said: I've gotten Hager from here before: http://www.gil-lec.co.uk/circuit-protection/consumer-units-accessories/hager-consumer-units-accessories Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney12 Posted August 30, 2017 Author Share Posted August 30, 2017 So, interesting feedback from my Clipsal C-Bus supplier is that having the dimmer and relay channel units in plastic enclosures is acceptable. I dont see how thats possible? @ProDave @Onoff ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 Plastic enclosures...why not? It's only CUs where the regs changed and only then because of manucturers changing to single screws, 5ww idiots fitting stuff straight out of the box without tightening, harder copper? single strands? etc. Think of the mains powered stuff in the average house that's got a plastic enclosure, PlayStations etc. So Clipsal.....guessing you'd agree it's a well known "name"? I would btw. Look what's standard type kit in Australia. Trust me we're behind: http://www.clipsal.com/Trade/Products/ProductDetail?CatNo=RCBE206/30S The SBS stuff is the same tech but he's got approvals for here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney12 Posted August 30, 2017 Author Share Posted August 30, 2017 1 minute ago, Onoff said: Plastic enclosures...why not? It's only CUs where the regs changed and only then because of manucturers changing to single screws, 5ww idiots fitting stuff straight out of the box without tightening, harder copper? single strands? etc. Bloody hell its minefield! So is an enclosure containing dimmer and relay lighting modules (including 1 amp MCB's on the outgoing side) NOT a consumer unit???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 Don't forget the metal CU thing is domestic only. You can still fit a plastic CU in an office or workshop. You obviously get a better standard of electrician doing that sort of work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney12 Posted August 30, 2017 Author Share Posted August 30, 2017 Just now, ProDave said: Don't forget the metal CU thing is domestic only. You can still fit a plastic CU in an office or workshop. You obviously get a better standard of electrician doing that sort of work. The one that does my office is the same guy who's doing my house!!! Arghhhhh! (Mind exploding emoti required!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 2 minutes ago, Barney12 said: Bloody hell its minefield! So is an enclosure containing dimmer and relay lighting modules (including 1 amp MCB's on the outgoing side) NOT a consumer unit???? Correct .... you could take the entire output from your CU and feed it into 24 ice cream boxes and it would be fine .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney12 Posted August 30, 2017 Author Share Posted August 30, 2017 10 minutes ago, PeterW said: Correct .... you could take the entire output from your CU and feed it into 24 ice cream boxes and it would be fine .... Right thats it. I'm off to join the monster raving loony party. The worlds gone fecking mad!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 (edited) Not got the OSG in front of me but pretty sure if you can find a plastic enclosure that'll cope with a certain degree "glow wire test" I think is the term then that's considered non combustible. One of the cu makers is touting the non flammability of the PAINT on their metal CUs...(Wylex?). Just to set them apart from the others. Something else for you to consider / worry about. Go to Ireland and I think GARO DP rcbos (no fly lead, single module) are popular. Edited August 30, 2017 by Onoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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