amilio Posted September 2, 2023 Share Posted September 2, 2023 Hey everyone, I've a wall in my kitchen where, over the kitchen counter I have an electrical wall socket on one end, a window in the middle and I'd like to install a new wall socket on the other end like the drawing I've attached. However, as I opened the original wall socket to check what was inside the wall and how to route a cable from there and extend the ring circuit to the new socket, I've noticed there is a vertical wood beam the goes all the way from the roof to the floor. I suppose the same will exist on the other end of the window. In this situation, how would you go about routing a cable to a new socket doing minimal damage and without have exposed cables in the kitchen? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuerteStu Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 Kitchen units have a services gap behind them. It's common to fix wiring and Pipes to the wall just below the worktop, popping up to the sockets. How easily could you lift the worktop off? That could be your solution, if not, then lift floor boards upstairs and reroute one leg of the ring to drop down the other side of the window, and add a link between the two Sockets. Then you maintain the ring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markc Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 If you can go straight down behind plasterboard, remove kick board and reach under to make a hole, drop cables down then under kitchen units and back up to new socket location .. hopefully nothing in way behind PB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone West Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 59 minutes ago, FuerteStu said: It's common to fix wiring and Pipes to the wall just below the worktop, popping up to the sockets. How easily could you lift the worktop off? I don't think that would be allowed as it's not in a safe zone as shown in blue below. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 You don't give us a clue how old the house is and construction method. We can at least work out this wall is timber frame. If you have access to lift floorboards in the room above, then drop a new cable for the socket straight down from above. Otherwise down from the existing socket, out onto the surface of the wall below the worktop, along behind the units, back into the wall and up to the new socket. This is allowed as safe zones only relate to buried cables. The horizontal cable would indeed not be in a safe zone, but it would be on the surface of the wall. There may be many obstacles in the way which make that far from simple, you don't know until you try it. Some kitchen cabinets the back stops short of the worktop so you might be able to do it without removing the worktop. Always assuming the existing socket is part of a ring. If that is already a spur from somewhere then you can't join onto that for the new socket. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuerteStu Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 4 hours ago, Gone West said: I don't think that would be allowed as it's not in a safe zone as shown in blue below. Safe zones are for buried cables, not ones clipped on the surface under the counter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone West Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 2 hours ago, FuerteStu said: Safe zones are for buried cables, not ones clipped on the surface under the counter Yeah I know, but I may have misunderstood the OP as I thought 15 hours ago, amilio said: without have exposed cables in the kitchen meant not surface mounted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amilio Posted September 3, 2023 Author Share Posted September 3, 2023 Hey everyone, thanks for your suggestions, tons of good advice! After further inspection under the kitchen counter I found there is one cable coming from the wall (precisely in the middle of the wall). This cable connects to a loose socket block. The washing machine's electrical plug connects to that socket. (drawing attached) I wonder if this would make things any easier? How would I be able to know where this cable is coming from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted September 4, 2023 Share Posted September 4, 2023 If it is one cable it will be a spur. How many cables connecting to the existing wall socket? What other sockets are nearby? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amilio Posted September 4, 2023 Author Share Posted September 4, 2023 13 hours ago, ProDave said: If it is one cable it will be a spur. How many cables connecting to the existing wall socket? What other sockets are nearby? There is only one cable connecting to the wall socket. Only that one wall socket closeby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuerteStu Posted September 4, 2023 Share Posted September 4, 2023 3 minutes ago, amilio said: There is only one cable connecting to the wall socket. Only that one wall socket closeby Then that socket is probably already a Spur.. And you won't be amble to extend it without, not without a fused connection unit in there. You'll need to derate the protection on the cable because it will probably be fed with a 32A breaker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted September 4, 2023 Share Posted September 4, 2023 7 minutes ago, amilio said: There is only one cable connecting to the wall socket. Only that one wall socket closeby Then it is going to be a much bigger job to even find somewhere to connect the new socket, or some rewiring of what is there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuerteStu Posted September 5, 2023 Share Posted September 5, 2023 9 hours ago, ProDave said: Then it is going to be a much bigger job to even find somewhere to connect the new socket, or some rewiring of what is there. There is the outside chance that it's the end of a radial, he hasn't specified what type of breaker it's feed from. Socket radials are much more common thanks to the influx European labour 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Jimbo Posted September 5, 2023 Share Posted September 5, 2023 The op needs to find out if it is a ring, or a radial. Not good to be messing with electrics when you dont even know that. I bet there is a kitchen sink under that window. Lots of nice water..... The whole house could just be a hodge podge of messy previous work. I have seen some horrors in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Jimbo Posted September 5, 2023 Share Posted September 5, 2023 Where did that picture of "safe zones" come from ? Within 100mm of a corner is exactly the opposite of a safe zone ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone West Posted September 5, 2023 Share Posted September 5, 2023 8 minutes ago, Big Jimbo said: Where did that picture of "safe zones" come from ? Within 100mm of a corner is exactly the opposite of a safe zone ! https://flameport.com/wiring_regulations/BS7671_selected_subjects/zones_concealed_cables.cs4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Jimbo Posted September 5, 2023 Share Posted September 5, 2023 Link not working. I'm well out of date with my 16th edition, and part P. However, within 100mm from a corner never has and never will be a safe zone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone West Posted September 5, 2023 Share Posted September 5, 2023 10 minutes ago, Big Jimbo said: Link not working. I'm well out of date with my 16th edition, and part P. However, within 100mm from a corner never has and never will be a safe zone. Works fine on mine. Try this:- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuerteStu Posted September 5, 2023 Share Posted September 5, 2023 16 minutes ago, Big Jimbo said: Link not working. I'm well out of date with my 16th edition, and part P. However, within 100mm from a corner never has and never will be a safe zone. When I first did my 17th a decade ago it was a safe zone.. Never could understand why the edges of a chimney breast were 'safe' though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Jimbo Posted September 5, 2023 Share Posted September 5, 2023 Cheers for that @Gone West. Well, everyday is a school day, and happy to admit i was wrong. My foggy brain must not be in gear yet today. Still think that that is shite IMO. My cables always run either straight up, straight down, or left or right. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted September 5, 2023 Share Posted September 5, 2023 Safe zones would work if people knew about them. Just about the only people I have ever met that know about them are electricians. Most other trades I meet including plumbers and joiners don't know about them. And because the general public don't know about them, you get the home owner who wants to hang a picture on the wall, but it is above a socket, so he gets the tape measure out to ensure the nail he puts in the wall lines up exactly with the middle of the socket lower down............ 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trialuser Posted September 5, 2023 Share Posted September 5, 2023 probably why they changed the name from 'safe' to 'prescribed' :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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