Bat survey cost... need to make a quick decision!

[fatgus]

Our project is finally gaining momentum and we need to get a bat survey done. We have found one company able to complete it this season. The overwhelming likelihood is that we'll need dusk surveys. This will be for the main dwelling... there are many outbuildings & random structures, but according to the architect they can wait till next year as they won't be forming part of the application (they're sufficiently far away from the house).

 

For the preliminary survey, two dusk emergence surveys, record search & report they're quoting £900... does that sound reasonable? 

 

[nod]

At least Dick Turpin wore a mask 

[fatgus]

😂 OK... so that's a 'No'?

[Thorfun]

sadly that's the cost of ecologists. i don't think £900 for 2 x dusk surveys is too far off the mark in my experience. it depends on how many ecologists are required. we had 3 on-site for our surveys. also, they arrive an hour or so before dusk to setup and then spend a couple of hours monitoring etc. so working on an hourly basis of around £50/hr when you factor in travel costs, company profit, insurance, producing the report etc your quote seems about right.

 

 

[saveasteading]

Price is OK. I just worry that the report requires another set of visits, by themselves of course.

 

I would ask them about the likelihood of that before committing.

 

Doing it ASAP is good as it gives time for a plan. Even for an alternative survey if you don't like them.

[fatgus]

Thanks Thorfun... we did get another quote that was slightly cheaper, but they can't fit us in until next year. They also hadn't been to the site, so I suspect it might have got a little more pricey...

 

 

[fatgus]

Just now, saveasteading said:

Price is OK. I just worry that the report requires another set of visits, by themselves of course.

 

I would ask them about the likelihood of that before committing.

 

Doing it ASAP is good as it gives time for a plan. Even for an alternative survey if you don't like them.

 

One of my concerns was that they talked about the possibility of an ecological survey too... largely because it's quite overgrown and there could be grass snakes & slow worms hiding in the long grass. Irritatingly, it was nicely mown until a few months ago.

 

 

At the moment we're weighing up the pros/cons of waiting until May, submitting the planning application 'subject to bat survey' and using the delay to effect some clearance work... 

 

 

 

[joe90]

Get that grass cut very short ASAP, don’t give them an excuse to slow your project or cost you even more money. As an aside our planners wanted bat roosts built in the house even though I had built enough of them in the garage to cover the whole area, when I went to planning appeal the Secretary of State officer told the planners they were not qualified to over rule the ecologist. So don’t be afraid to challenge planners.

[fatgus]

2 minutes ago, joe90 said:

Get that grass cut very short ASAP, don’t give them an excuse to slow your project or cost you even more money. As an aside our planners wanted bat roosts built in the house even though I had built enough of them in the garage to cover the whole area, when I went to planning appeal the Secretary of State officer told the planners they were not qualified to over rule the ecologist. So don’t be afraid to challenge planners.

 

Cheers joe90

 

I'm thinking... get the survey done on the house then once that's done and dusted start clearing the scrub and grassy areas. We have no desire to disturb the wildlife, in fact our entire plan (post renovation) is the precise opposite, but by the same token we're not haemorrhaging money unnecessarily.

 

 

[Thorfun]

be aware that ecologist reports expire! we had to 'renew' ours as we went to planning as the originals were a couple of years old and were done before we bought the property. but we were lucky and used the same ecologists and they did a 'refresh' survey so we didn't need a full load of surveys done again.

 

basically, ecology costs a small fortune once they find existence of protected species. on-going surveys, licenses etc.

[nod]

52 minutes ago, fatgus said:

😂 OK... so that's a 'No'?

To be fair it’s probably about the going rate 

Ours came said it’s unlikely 

Came back that evening for about 20 minutes Said unlikely £700 less than two hours 

The following day a was having a winge to the neighbor and he said they have bats in there garage 😂

[Thorfun]

1 minute ago, nod said:

To be fair it’s probably about the going rate 

Ours came said it’s unlikely 

Came back that evening for about 20 minutes Said unlikely £700 less than two hours 

The following day a was having a winge to the neighbor and he said they have bats in there garage 😂

sounds like you dodged a very expensive bullet there! we don't have any bats living at our property any more (latest emergence surveys proved that) but because they once found evidence of a bat here we have to spend a lot of money of surveys and licences. luckily the great crested newts in our area skirt around our plot otherwise it would've been even more expensive and troublesome!

[fatgus]

25 minutes ago, Thorfun said:

be aware that ecologist reports expire! we had to 'renew' ours as we went to planning as the originals were a couple of years old and were done before we bought the property. but we were lucky and used the same ecologists and they did a 'refresh' survey so we didn't need a full load of surveys done again.

 

basically, ecology costs a small fortune once they find existence of protected species. on-going surveys, licenses etc.

Yup... 2 years, I believe? We're hoping the planning process will take less than that, but who knows 🙄 They'll do a refresher quick reasonably, should it be necessary.

[ToughButterCup]

1 hour ago, fatgus said:

...

but according to the architect they can wait till next year as they won't be forming part of the application (they're sufficiently far away from the house).

...

 

Check that ..... architects aren't ecologists

You can do so by looking at other similar planning applications in your locality. Look through the ecology reports.

 

Purely for reference, I relate the following - this is first hand evidence.

Some local farmers have been known to 

• fill ponds with pig slurry - kills GCNs
• fell trees in which bats roost
• level (scrape the topsoil off) parts of fields near ponds
• fell trees with TPOs on them and just pay the fine if caught (felled at 08:30 on Sunday mornings)
• shoot bat roosts out (by paying their shoot members to do a bit of clay shooting very close by)
• and then have the temerity to moan in the local pub about the lack of wild-life

Our ecologist behaved abysmally - almost as badly as one plumber we had the misfortune to meet. He lost an email telling us that we could proceed - and thus delayed the start of our build by 9 months. I paid half his bill: not a murmur from him about it.

 

Happily now, our place is crawling with GCNs, (one in the kitchen when it rained hard)  the bats are back in force and the swifts (gone now) have been fluttering about the place , though not nesting yet. Healthy head of rats : all need shooting (a cheap night-sight is brilliant for watching bats). Brown hares have started boxing again in the field next to us.

 

Over the course of our build I excluded about 30 GCNs (more? ) , and accidentally killed about two or three (so that means probably about 10 ). The whole ecology build cost - I can't face writing  the number here - made each newt worth several hundred pounds.

 

Disproportionate and unreasonable. And I love all forms of newts. 

[Post and beam]

59 minutes ago, fatgus said:

One of my concerns was that they talked about the possibility of an ecological survey too... largely because it's quite overgrown and there could be grass snakes & slow worms hiding in the long grass. Irritatingly, it was nicely mown until a few months ago.

This is virtually identical to the pain i had with these surveys last year and earlier this year. documented on here. The argument you proposed above wont wash. 

Then there is an acrcheaology survey.

54 minutes ago, joe90 said:

Get that grass cut very short ASAP

Good luck

 

To help the non existent snakes and newts i am required to dig them a home once building starts.  .5 metre deep, > 1 metre wide and filled with stones, sticks and anything else that creates a space. Then covered over. I am not kidding.

 

I am also supposed to cover all foundation trenches every night in case creatures fall in. Oh yes and provide them a way out should they do so.

This is east herts by the way.

[Post and beam]

Oh and the cost is not surprising either.

 

All of these surveys types appear to be able to write into their terms that they can decide when and if they need to do more, visit you again. You have no say in this but its at your cost. Licence to print money.

 

I hope you dont have to have an Archeaology survey but if you do pray they dont find anything interesting.   If they decide a full team is required, with welfare facilities etc. you are liable.

[saveasteading]

30 minutes ago, Post and beam said:

am required to dig them a home once building starts.  .5 metre deep, > 1 metre wide and filled with stones, sticks and anything else that creates a space. Then covered over.

 

I am also supposed to cover all foundation trenches every night in case creatures fall in. Oh yes and provide them a way out should they do so.

 

The soakaway for snakes isn't a big deal is it?

Covering the trenches might be....but a plank for a ramp out again wouldn't be.

 

[ToughButterCup]

1 hour ago, Post and beam said:

...

To help the non existent snakes and newts i am required to dig them a home once building starts.  .5 metre deep, > 1 metre wide and filled with stones, sticks and anything else that creates a space. Then covered over. I am not kidding.

...

 

5m deep? .... rubbish. Contest that.

What they may be talking about is a hibernaculum.  For our (two) I cut down some branches and other brash, and with the digger blade,  shoved the resultant mess into two corners of our land , and fenced them off with temporary HERAS.  

 

"They look good " said the eco-charlatan on one of his highly overpaid visits. The HERAS provides two things - 'status' and the inability to inspect too closely 

[fatgus]

1 hour ago, ToughButterCup said:

 

Check that ..... architects aren't ecologists

You can do so by looking at other similar planning applications in your locality. Look through the ecology reports.

 

Purely for reference, I relate the following - this is first hand evidence.

Some local farmers have been known to 

• fill ponds with pig slurry - kills GCNs
• fell trees in which bats roost
• level (scrape the topsoil off) parts of fields near ponds
• fell trees with TPOs on them and just pay the fine if caught (felled at 08:30 on Sunday mornings)
• shoot bat roosts out (by paying their shoot members to do a bit of clay shooting very close by)
• and then have the temerity to moan in the local pub about the lack of wild-life

Our ecologist behaved abysmally - almost as badly as one plumber we had the misfortune to meet. He lost an email telling us that we could proceed - and thus delayed the start of our build by 9 months. I paid half his bill: not a murmur from him about it.

 

Happily now, our place is crawling with GCNs, (one in the kitchen when it rained hard)  the bats are back in force and the swifts (gone now) have been fluttering about the place , though not nesting yet. Healthy head of rats : all need shooting (a cheap night-sight is brilliant for watching bats). Brown hares have started boxing again in the field next to us.

 

Over the course of our build I excluded about 30 GCNs (more? ) , and accidentally killed about two or three (so that means probably about 10 ). The whole ecology build cost - I can't face writing  the number here - made each newt worth several hundred pounds.

 

Disproportionate and unreasonable. And I love all forms of newts. 

 

Thankfully (until they change their mind) the 'sufficiently far from the house' comment was agreed by the ecologist. We've actually had three quotes.. one for the main dwelling, which will be needed for the planning application (£900), one for the outbuildings/sheds for when we remove or replace them (£1000) and another for ecological survey... snakes, slow-worms, otters, badger etc (£1000).

 

Our intention is to make this place a haven for wildlife... other than having a decent house with plenty of space, it is our main driver for the whole project. The ecologist is really lovely and seems genuinely interested and 'on board' with our plans. Doesn't mean he won't be expensive though, or over complicate things

 

 

 

 

 

[Thorfun]

13 minutes ago, ToughButterCup said:

 

5m deep? .... rubbish. Contest that.

What they may be talking about is a hibernaculum.  For our (two) I cut down some branches and other brash, and with the digger blade,  shoved the resultant mess into two corners of our land , and fenced them off with temporary HERAS.  

 

"They look good " said the eco-charlatan on one of his highly overpaid visits. The HERAS provides two things - 'status' and the inability to inspect too closely 

he said 0.5m deep. you just missed the '.' before the 5. 😉 

[saveasteading]

You can propose to only do clearance during the months that newts are in ponds. 

Then you don't have to look for newts, just accept they are there

One council I know recommends that. others have accepted it. 

As a correspondent on here previously pointed out..some young newts stay on land, but it is not significant.

 

While you are at it, tell the council what you are doing for wildlife.

 

[Post and beam]

2 hours ago, ToughButterCup said:

5m deep? .... rubbish. Contest that.

Point 5 metres

[Canski]

My 5 bat surveys were £800 plus Vat each. NEVER LEAVE THEM UNSUPERVISED. They love talking about bats so get yourself and some friends together for a one to one with each ecologist during the surveys. Total cost with an EPS license was around £ 8k it’s a scam. At the end of the day not one single constipated bat was found. 

[crispy_wafer]

How far down the planning route are you?  If you havent submitted yet, then in all honesty get the land cleared as @joe90 says, you aren't doing anything other than cutting the grass and tidying up!  if you make a noise and upset the Wildlife and it goes on a temporary holiday, it'll come back, don't worry about that!  What you don't want is wildlife getting in your way, costing you money and delaying you and your journey!  That money will be better spent later on, on the things you want rather than paying for some buggers pcp payment on their new land rover.  It's all good doing the right things, but in all honesty when you are building every sod and their pal wants their palms crossing with silver just for ticking a box.  There's definitely a reason @ToughButterCup 's farmers act like they do.

Edited August 4, 2023 by crispy_wafer
and breathe - turn off rant mode :-)

[Bonner]

+1 for moving the wildlife on for a while. We cleared the site before the planners descended. No conditions were imposed but we have installed bird and bat boxes, wild planting and planning to dig a pond. New houses and gardens can actually increase the diversity of wildlife … after a brief disruption to habitats during the build.