SteamyTea Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 Seems that our government, as I predicted, has just about abandoned all the environmental proposals by issuing 100 new oil and gas extraction licences and is going to rely on carbon capture and storage. I think I shall get a wood burner as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanR Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 Rishi has signalled quite a change in policy, hopefully there will be some new numbers published to support the statement. In today's interview he has said that even when we meet Net Zero in 2050 "a quarter of our domestic energy needs will still come from oil and gas" That's a bit different from the Energy White paper from 2019, where Gas CCUS makes up < 10% : Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 Sounds to me like a realisation of reality, that it is simply not possible to power everything from renewables and a realisation that electricity demand will double. I think it is the first time i have seen such an admission. What strikes me given the growth in electricity demand and the growth in renewable generation, which we know to be rather dependant on the weather hence unreliable, is just how little energy storage there is in that mixture. I have said for a while people are more likely to get on board and support the changes if the targets are realistic and achievable, and some praise is given for the progress we have already made. Set an unachievable target, and treat everyone as though nobody has done a thing yet to reduce emissions and you get a disinterested public. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 13 minutes ago, ProDave said: Sounds to me like a realisation of reality, that it is simply not possible to power everything from renewables and a realisation that electricity demand will double. I think it is the first time i have seen such an admission. I agree, until storage and network is upgraded abandoning gas and oil instantly is impossible. Yes they will get slated for it but I think it’s pragmatic. If we can stop buying oil and gas from Putin that has to be a good thing. The comment that carbon capture is a smokescreen is also not true as Norway (I think) has been doing it since 1996. modern cars, petrol and diesel are far cleaner than an old XJS and modern wood burning stoves cleaner than old models so going back 50 years is just silly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted July 31, 2023 Author Share Posted July 31, 2023 (edited) 29 minutes ago, ProDave said: I have said for a while people are more likely to get on board and support the changes if the targets are realistic and achievable Which people. Most cannot understand their electricity bill. 28 minutes ago, ProDave said: which we know to be rather dependant on the weather hence unreliable I don't think unreliable is the right word. They perform as expected for the weather conditions. 8 minutes ago, joe90 said: until storage and network is upgraded abandoning gas and oil instantly is impossible Were does the 'instantly' bit come from. It has never been about just swapping over one night. Edited July 31, 2023 by SteamyTea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 3 minutes ago, SteamyTea said: Were does the 'instantly' bit come from. It has never been about just swapping over one night. “JUST STOP OIL” 🤷♂️ I don’t think this is possible, we are changing, and that speed is debatable but has to be realistic. The only thing I believe any government has got wrong is realistic grants for insulation, as we all here keep up the mantra of insulation, insulation, insulation when building I am sure consumption of “energy” would be much lower if people were helped to do this to their homes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 22 minutes ago, SteamyTea said: Which people. Most cannot understand their electricity bill. Well as @joe90 said, Just stop Oil want us to stop using oil right now. Totally unrealistic. We are transitioning to more renewable generation, just as fast as wind farms and the electricity distribution network can be built. Banging on to "the public" about the need for change is not going to speed that up. We have already discussed how there are artificial hurdles put in the way of installing heat pumps. Buying an electric car now is just likely to result in more fossil fuelled electricity to charge them. Constantly being told "we" are not doing enough just makes me feel like "well I bloody well will buy a historic V8 petrol Range Rover and drive it all around the London LEZ then" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted July 31, 2023 Author Share Posted July 31, 2023 12 minutes ago, joe90 said: “JUST STOP OIL” I know very little about them, Cornwall is not a target area. I am sure that there are top members that will have a transition plan though. 14 minutes ago, joe90 said: only thing I believe any government has got wrong is realistic grants for insulation Was chatting to the guy who owns net door. About 2003/4, he got a free loft insulation installed in all 3 of his properties. This strikes me as wrong. The easy way to do it is that gas can only be supplied if your property uses, based on meter readings, less than a fixed delivered amount i.e. 70 kWh.year-1.m-2 (or whatever). Then it is up to the home owner what to do i.e. sell up and move, upgrade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MR10 Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 38 minutes ago, joe90 said: If we can stop buying oil and gas from Putin that has to be a good thing. The UK does not get preferential rates/price on oil and gas once extracted. It all goes to the open market so 'Putin's oil' will still make its way here. Oil and gas operators in the UK are mostly foreign owned, there is no UK national oil company in joint ventures or the like with these operators. So in terms of energy security, make of that what you will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 4 minutes ago, SteamyTea said: I am sure that there are top members that will have a transition plan though. Not sure about that, I would love to see something practical from them, may give them a leg up PR wise. 5 minutes ago, SteamyTea said: Was chatting to the guy who owns net door. About 2003/4, he got a free loft insulation installed in all 3 of his properties. This strikes me as wrong. Why, reduces energy usage. 6 minutes ago, SteamyTea said: The easy way to do it is that gas can only be supplied if your property uses, based on meter readings, less than a fixed delivered amount i.e. 70 kWh.year-1.m-2 (or whatever). Then it is up to the home owner what to do i.e. sell up and move, upgrade. Sounds like a “nanny state” to me, plus the cost of implementation and organisation would be huge. A bit like saying you can only have a car if you drive more than X miles. What about the elderly and poorly that need more heat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 3 minutes ago, MR10 said: The UK does not get preferential rates/price on oil and gas once extracted. It all goes to the open market so 'Putin's oil' will still make its way here. Oil and gas operators in the UK are mostly foreign owned, there is no UK national oil company in joint ventures or the like with these operators. So in terms of energy security, make of that what you will. Then perhaps that needs to change, we are not the only country that wants to not be dependant on Putins oil surely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MR10 Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 7 minutes ago, joe90 said: Then perhaps that needs to change, we are not the only country that wants to not be dependant on Putins oil surely. I don't disagree and dependence on Middle Eastern oil is not desired either but there's still the misconception that oil extracted from UK fields will be sequestered for UK use. Operators will hedge/sell to the highest bidder as they exist to line their shareholders pockets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Jones Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 excellent news. All green tax should be suspended until china has closed its last coal fired power station as its completely pointless until that happens. Loony lefties can of course voluntarily give up all oil based products and services, but why do they always want to force others to do the same ? No wonder Hitler was a socialist. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 Out of interest, if you electrify an ICE classic car does it then qualify as a true EV? Then if it's under 40 years old but electric, would you avoid the ULEZ charge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 1 minute ago, Onoff said: Out of interest, if you electrify an ICE classic car does it then qualify as a true EV? Then if it's under 40 years old but electric, would you avoid the ULEZ charge? If you convert a classic to EV you then have to tax and MOT it as it’s been significantly altered. I am sure I would be charged fir driving my classic in Bristol,s clean air zone as I saw no “get out clause” when I read up about it. (Even my Merc is a year too old so I use my motorbike if I have to go through the zone). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted July 31, 2023 Author Share Posted July 31, 2023 29 minutes ago, joe90 said: 41 minutes ago, SteamyTea said: Was chatting to the guy who owns net door. About 2003/4, he got a free loft insulation installed in all 3 of his properties. This strikes me as wrong. Why, reduces energy usage. Mainly because he has 3 properties and could well afford to do a simple and cheap loft upgrade. That fits in with your 30 minutes ago, joe90 said: What about the elderly and poorly that need more heat. But they don't need more, they need to loose less. 31 minutes ago, joe90 said: Sounds like a “nanny state” to me That is what we vote for though. 32 minutes ago, joe90 said: the cost of implementation and organisation would be huge All that information is already reported to the government. You can get the spreadsheet from the ONS if you want to. 33 minutes ago, joe90 said: A bit like saying you can only have a car if you drive more than X miles Not really, the utility value to the nation is very different. But we have seen that people will still travel when fuel prices double. So there is a lot of slack to be taken up there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMo Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 20 minutes ago, Onoff said: Out of interest, if you electrify an ICE classic car does it then qualify as a true EV? Then if it's under 40 years old but electric, would you avoid the ULEZ charge? My VW based buggy is exempt anyway, without electric drive, it's my only vehicle allowed in ULEZ with charges. But it's 60 next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 51 minutes ago, JohnMo said: it's my only vehicle allowed in ULEZ with charges. I think you mean without charges, historic vehicles are exempt. (Just found out my classic is also exempt from the Bristol Clean air zone. 👍). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 4 minutes ago, joe90 said: I think you mean without charges, historic vehicles are exempt. (Just found out my classic is also exempt from the Bristol Clean air zone. 👍). Older than 40 years, if converted to EV are MOT exempt I've just read. For that Bristol Clean Air Zone do you have to pre register the car? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 2 minutes ago, Onoff said: Older than 40 years, if converted to EV are MOT exempt I've just read. I stand corrected. 3 minutes ago, Onoff said: For that Bristol Clean Air Zone do you have to pre register the car? No, just checked on the Bristol clean air zone website, my Merc is chargeable but the classic and motorbike are exempt (I did hear that motorbikes are exempt because the cameras face the front of a vehicle and motorbikes have no front numberplate 🤷♂️. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 As an aside I have just finished watching the new Chris Packham (BBC) programme called Earth, fascinating history of our planet and it’s various stages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Blobby Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 6 hours ago, ProDave said: Well as @joe90 said, Just stop Oil want us to stop using oil right now. Totally unrealistic. This is a common misunderstanding. Just stop oil actually campaign to stop new licenses for gas and oil. They don't actually call for everyone to stop using oil right now, or even to stop extracting oil out of existing wells. They just want us to use less of it over time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 2 minutes ago, Mr Blobby said: This is a common misunderstanding. Then perhaps if they advertised their motive instead of not allowing ambulances to get to hospital, or normal people from getting to work they may have more support 🤷♂️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMo Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 4 hours ago, joe90 said: did hear that motorbikes are exempt because the cameras face the front of a vehicle and motorbikes have no front numberplate Mainly because they aren't categorised for emmisions within the UK. Basically in the difficult basket for the law makers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Blobby Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 Just now, joe90 said: Then perhaps if they advertised their motive instead of not allowing ambulances to get to hospital, or normal people from getting to work they may have more support 🤷♂️ They do have a misleading name. But we have all heard of them and that's their goal. I've never been affected by them but then I don't drive in a big English city or watch cricket or snooker much. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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