Quantity surveyor?

[Bournbrook]

Hi all. 
I’m looking for some advice about potentially using a quantity surveyor in the early design phase for a new build (approx 160sqm). 
we are working with a great architect (recommendation from on here) who has put together a great initial design for us. The architect has said to budget about £250-275 per square ft (approx 2700-3000 per sqm) and that there is nothing about the initial design that is particularly complex and that would push that figure up at this stage. However, I have been speaking to friends in the area (we are in SE England) who have had recent quotes for extensions and renovations and they are INSANE). One had moving a staircase, some walls down and a tiny extension come in at £360k. Is it the case that renovations are simply a lot more (I appreciate the VAT doesn’t help) or are construction prices still crazy high?!

I spoke to my architect and said this has created some reluctance as we don’t want to pay for detailed drawings for planning (and then further detailed drawings)  just to find out we can’t actually afford to do it. He has said that with the floor plan and some elevations he’s started, it should be enough to get some quotes from some SIP/TF companies and then to a QS for a better idea of costs. My questions are:

 

- how much would an estimation like this cost from a QS?

- how accurate actually is it??

- does anyone else have any advice/recent experience of build costs in the SE (perhaps that £3000sqm figure is just too low now for a main contractor build?)

thank you 

[Temp]

When we looked at a QS they wanted 1.5% +VAT of the build cost to work out the materials and labour.

 

We then got 3 or 4 quotes from builders. The QS wanted more to review the quotes to ensure they were all made on the same basis. Eg One builder had included a greater PC sum for the kitchen, another hadn't included any landscaping or driveway etc. There were a lot of differences. One had dramatically under estimated the cost of windows.

 

The QS pointed out all the errors and omissions and asked for final quotes. They were all within a few thousand of the QS estimate. 

 

During construction we made almost no changes but did find second fix items like wood and stone flooring much more expensive. Probably over spent by £40k. It's about 310 sqm built to high standard in 2005-7.

[Temp]

April 23 figures..

 

https://www.checkatrade.com/blog/cost-guides/building-cost-per-sq-m/

 

Don't just look at the table, read the text as it details extra costs not included which are significant.

[nod]

That seams a very health budget 

About treble ours 

Whilst labour will be a bit more Materials will be the same 

[Bournbrook]

30 minutes ago, nod said:

That seams a very health budget 

About treble ours 

Whilst labour will be a bit more Materials will be the same 

That’s what I thought! Just a bit reluctant to spend so much to be really disappointed!

[Bournbrook]

2 hours ago, Temp said:

April 23 figures..

 

https://www.checkatrade.com/blog/cost-guides/building-cost-per-sq-m/

 

Don't just look at the table, read the text as it details extra costs not included which are significant.

Thanks. This seems to indicate that even with all the extra costs (most of which we had accounted for separately) we should be ok. Still not sure though!!

[Dave Jones]

a cheap option is www.estimators.com , send them your plans and elevations. you will get a price down to the last screw. 

 

it wont give you prices on getting out the ground or steel unless you supply the SE report.

 

Can tweak labour rates to suit your area, pretty accurate for only a couple hundred quid.

 

Once you have this you can give a copy to the builders so they know what they are working with.

[Seren161]

We completed our build 4 mths ago and we were well below the £/m2 that you are working with @Katie AG, East Kent so not too far. You have to remember that it is a process full of variables and so with a budget such as yours which seems healthy and reasonable you should be able to tweak your variables to make your self build dream come true with some careful planning and good oversight. 

[Mr Punter]

It is worth bearing in mind that @nod is a seasoned contractor /developer who works very hard and efficiently and has lots of contacts as well as free labour from family and friends, so don't for a moment think you will get your project completed for anything like he can.

 

For normal humans in the South East, £3-3.5k / m2 seems about right.

[nod]

59 minutes ago, Mr Punter said:

It is worth bearing in mind that @nod is a seasoned contractor /developer who works very hard and efficiently and has lots of contacts as well as free labour from family and friends, so don't for a moment think you will get your project completed for anything like he can.

 

For normal humans in the South East, £3-3.5k / m2 seems about right.

No Free labour 

Just my wife and me 

I have guys who work for me 

But they never set foot on our first build Or this one so far 

But thanks for the kind words 

[LaCurandera]

We went through planning and did building regs drawings but now can't afford it  in good conscience for this very reason. 

Estimators online - £350K
Builder 1 - £340K (excluding Kitchens / bathrooms / internal doors/woodwork / exterior / PV)
Builder 2 - £480K (excluding kitchens / bathroom)
Builder 3 - £550K (including PC sums for Kitchen / bathrooms, ~500K without)

During design discussions (including a builder so not all architect fantasy), expected cost was about £300K in early 2022, 

[saveasteading]

1 hour ago, LaCurandera said:

Estimators online - £350K

As a once professional estimator, i wondered how these online servic3s could be accurste, and so cheap.

Ive seen an estimate now and trawled thtough it. 

There are a great many exclusions. Apart from that i thnk it is simply a quick meaure from the drawings using computer methods, and applying to standard rates.

I was impressed that some special and unusual features were included.

 

Given that 4 contractors with the same drawings will vary by about 20% it is only a guide.

 

I think the rates are deliberately on the high side, and include profit and waste. Rightly so.

 

Would i advise using them? The less you know about construction the more it is advisable to get this done. So yes.

A QS will do exactly the same but with local knowledge.

 

On the other hand, i'd expect an analysis of many estimates would show a general £/m2 range. But the specific  estimate will pick up large windows etc and allow tge client to save up, or alter the design.

 

[Marvin]

As @saveasteading, I also have been an estimator, and also a PQS and would say the advice is V good. 

 

During my work once or twice the quotes came in a lot lower than expected. We found out that several in the area were low on work so they were more competitive, and on the other hand a job with bad access, no parking, double yellow lines, on a steep hill, quoted when contractors are very busy was 50% more! 

 

As @saveasteading said starting with a £/m2 for average work is a good start, and then see what affects that price.

 

The dark art is ground works: 

Contaminated land, made up ground that needs piling, water table high, deep foundations, Oak trees or other trees within 20 meters of the foundations, hidden services in the ground, rock outcrops, previous buildings on the plot, services on poles, the list is endless. 

 

This is the list I used to get out when a client queried the costing of the ground works.

 

Good luck

 

Marvin

 

[Marvin]

On 27/07/2023 at 23:28, nod said:

No Free labour 

Just my wife and me 

So how much do you pay your wife? 😂

Price day rate or by the hour? - No rude connotation intended.

Edited August 9, 2023 by Marvin

[saveasteading]

20 minutes ago, Marvin said:

The dark art is ground works: 

Good point. Among all the many exclusions, it is simply scary that someone calculates a cost without seeing the site, or an Engineer's assessment..

The ground can easily make a project unviable.

[nod]

24 minutes ago, Marvin said:

So how much do you pay your wife? 😂

Price day rate or by the hour? - No rude connotation intended.

Ha ha

She works for free 

Just like me 😁

[Bournbrook]

On 09/08/2023 at 13:54, LaCurandera said:

We went through planning and did building regs drawings but now can't afford it  in good conscience for this very reason. 

Estimators online - £350K
Builder 1 - £340K (excluding Kitchens / bathrooms / internal doors/woodwork / exterior / PV)
Builder 2 - £480K (excluding kitchens / bathroom)
Builder 3 - £550K (including PC sums for Kitchen / bathrooms, ~500K without)

During design discussions (including a builder so not all architect fantasy), expected cost was about £300K in early 2022, 

Thanks for sharing. This is very much my worry. Do you mind me asking what you were hoping to build and where? 
thanks 

[LaCurandera]

On 11/08/2023 at 21:21, Katie AG said:

Thanks for sharing. This is very much my worry. Do you mind me asking what you were hoping to build and where? 
thanks 

Converting a 1.5 storey chalet bungalow to two full floors and extension. No wider works like landscaping etc, in east Anglia.

 

We had 5% vat as it’s been empty for more than two years, but we’ll need to move in now on a minor refurb and consider our options at these prices (in combination with cost of borrowing currently)