Crofter Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 Hypothetically... if I were to get a small/minimal ground mounted S-facing PV system installed by an MCS contractor, in practise could I later add extra panels facing E/W? I'm assuming that my export payments would be limited to whatever the original installation had, but with the extra panels I would get a longer generating day. And (how long is a piece of string) what kind of cost would a minimal system be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMo Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 6 minutes ago, Crofter said: what kind of cost would a minimal system be? DIY or MCS? DIY Min system is a PV panel - £135, DC cable £60, couple of isolation switches £70, inverter? Mounting system? MCS add a few thousand to the DIY price, you won't be far off. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CalvinHobbes Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 JohnMo I was thinking we should do something similar and hold off for these ones since the factory is opening https://www.rochester.edu/newscenter/metal-perovskite-solar-cells-vs-silicon-efficiency-550212/ like would it pay to invest now when the price is set to plummet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMo Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 Efficiency just means a difference in area, more efficient smaller area required. You will pay a premium price to save a few cm. Why bother. Prices will not drop by any degree. It's just another iteration of PV, amorphous, poly crystalline are all things that have occurred previously no real change in costing. To bring a user name up (so they get notified) - type @ and then start typing the user name and select from the coloured list of names that is auto generated. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone West Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 20 minutes ago, CalvinHobbes said: JohnMo I was thinking we should do something similar and hold off for these ones since the factory is opening https://www.rochester.edu/newscenter/metal-perovskite-solar-cells-vs-silicon-efficiency-550212/ like would it pay to invest now when the price is set to plummet? If the quoted 250% increase in efficiency of light conversion proves to be correct then perovskite panels would be significantly better than silicon. I can't see it happening in the near future though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kommando Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 (edited) I wall mounted mine, no real limitation on space so bought the panels on lowest £ per Watt which puts you in the 250 to 300W per standard panel range ie 1.7M x 1M. If I had been tight on space I would have gone with the 2.0m x 1.2M panels with higher efficancy and ended up paying higher £ per Watt. Locally all new housing developments must have solar panels on the roofs pointing South or East/West, but with a family out at work or school during the day with no useage of peak production and low feed in rates they instead get the full roof tiles and get the panels stored in the garage. So I recently got some new Veridian 270W panels for 24p per watt off Gumtree, so worth looking out for new housing schemes. Edited July 12, 2023 by kommando 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMo Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 So depends on what level they are comparing efficiency against and I see that is suitably vague. Size will decrease, but I doubt the price per watt will. Early adopters will pay. I got mine from Facebook market place 12x 285W poly crystalline at 20p a watt - 2 years usage. 1.7 X 1m, have mounted vertically for winter output rather than summer. Inverter came from Gumtree again years old £150. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 56 minutes ago, Gone West said: If the quoted 250% increase in efficiency of light conversion proves to be correct then perovskite panels would be significantly better than silicon Oh dear. Not going to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crofter Posted July 12, 2023 Author Share Posted July 12, 2023 2 hours ago, JohnMo said: DIY or MCS? DIY Min system is a PV panel - £135, DC cable £60, couple of isolation switches £70, inverter? Mounting system? MCS add a few thousand to the DIY price, you won't be far off. I'm specifically trying to determine the lowest cost MCS installed system. Panels are basically free these days. So why pay somebody else to source and install them? Of course the MCS guys can maybe get the panels even cheaper than I can, despite their profit margin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMo Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 Only way to find out is to get a quote in your area. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crofter Posted July 12, 2023 Author Share Posted July 12, 2023 1 hour ago, JohnMo said: Only way to find out is to get a quote in your area. Not having much luck finding someone who covers Skye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMo Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 You may be stuck doing DIY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crofter Posted July 12, 2023 Author Share Posted July 12, 2023 4 minutes ago, JohnMo said: You may be stuck doing DIY Which I'd be fine with, but it means no export. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kommando Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 What would be the benefit from MCS certification, if you can cost out that benefit then see how much fee this would justify. The fee will be in the £1000's so if the benefit is in the 100's over so many years then pointless even asking for a quote. I divert to hot water, works well and very little gets exported. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S2D2 Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 2 minutes ago, kommando said: What would be the benefit from MCS certification, if you can cost out that benefit then see how much fee this would justify. The fee will be in the £1000's so if the benefit is in the 100's over so many years then pointless even asking for a quote. I divert to hot water, works well and very little gets exported. As a random sample, MCS cost me maybe £1.5k (vs DIY, less vs non-MCS install) and I've had £400 of export payments over the last six months. I filled the roof as the relative cost was minimal so generate more than I need. The company I used are now charging more, so that may be an exception, but certainly worth it in my case. Flux may disappear overnight as well, they've already reduced export rates in line with import prices which track the price cap. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crofter Posted July 13, 2023 Author Share Posted July 13, 2023 9 hours ago, kommando said: What would be the benefit from MCS certification, if you can cost out that benefit then see how much fee this would justify. The fee will be in the £1000's so if the benefit is in the 100's over so many years then pointless even asking for a quote. I divert to hot water, works well and very little gets exported. My situation is maybe a bit unusual/complex. I've got two properties and would like to add PV to both, if I can afford it. First house: 70s bungalow with storage heaters and direct UVC. Currently used as a holiday let, mostly in summer. Bills included in rental so no incentive for guests to save energy. I'm planning to install A2A heating and perhaps PV with a diverter to the tank. Our longer term plans involve moving in to this house ourselves. Second house: 43m² holiday cottage (see my profile pic) used exclusively for short term lets, again mostly summer. High standard of insulation. Direct UVC. Again, thinking of PV+diverter to heat the tank. Because we aren't currently living in either house, we can't rely on managing loads etc. Whatever I install has to be hands-off and idiot proof. Being eligible for export is appealing because at least I'm guaranteed some sort of return. But if it doubles the cost of the project, then maybe not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted July 13, 2023 Share Posted July 13, 2023 8 hours ago, Crofter said: Because we aren't currently living in either house, we can't rely on managing loads etc So most of the time you could be exporting, so MCS then. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyT Posted July 13, 2023 Share Posted July 13, 2023 Manage remotely with Wi-Fi controlled devices/feedback Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenki Posted July 13, 2023 Share Posted July 13, 2023 20 hours ago, Crofter said: I'm specifically trying to determine the lowest cost MCS installed system. Panels are basically free these days. So why pay somebody else to source and install them? Of course the MCS guys can maybe get the panels even cheaper than I can, despite their profit margin. @Crofter why do you want MCS? DIY vs MCS is chalk and cheese, and if you can do it yourself, then I cant see any positives for the pittance you will get paid vs the front end inflated price robbery of MCS. the figures to me just don't work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crofter Posted July 13, 2023 Author Share Posted July 13, 2023 1 hour ago, TonyT said: Manage remotely with Wi-Fi controlled devices/feedback I'm not sure my guests will appreciate me turning things on and off remotely! I could maybe get away with it for the DHW but that would be on a diverter anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMo Posted July 13, 2023 Share Posted July 13, 2023 22 minutes ago, Jenki said: @Crofter why do you want MCS? DIY vs MCS is chalk and cheese, and if you can do it yourself, then I cant see any positives for the pittance you will get paid vs the front end inflated price robbery of MCS. the figures to me just don't work. Exactly, plus there will be just about zero expert in the winter, because generation is rubbish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crofter Posted July 13, 2023 Author Share Posted July 13, 2023 22 minutes ago, JohnMo said: Exactly, plus there will be just about zero expert in the winter, because generation is rubbish. I'm trying to get an idea of the basic starting price for an MCS system. So far I don't have anything to compare with. I know it will vary enormously by specification and location, but for a small ground mounted system do you think ~£5k is realistic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kommando Posted July 13, 2023 Share Posted July 13, 2023 What wattage PV array are you planning to go for, G98 will limit the inverter to 3.68kw per phase but the array can be a lot larger as the inverter will cap the peak to 3.68kw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crofter Posted July 13, 2023 Author Share Posted July 13, 2023 Just now, kommando said: What wattage PV array are you planning to go for, G98 will limit the inverter to 3.68kw per phase but the array can be a lot larger as the inverter will cap the peak to 3.68kw. I'm planning the cheapest possible MCS installation. Ground mount would be preferred, because my roof is E/W and also my roof (on the older house) isn't in the best condition. Of course panels are so cheap that I'm not sure how much I will save by skimping on them, even at MCS prices. But for sake of argument let's say 2kw. With a 3.68kw inverter installed for future proofing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kommando Posted July 13, 2023 Share Posted July 13, 2023 You best get an annual production forecast for your postcode and panel orientation for 2kw of panels and then set it against usage. One example, there are others https://photovoltaic-software.com/pv-softwares-calculators/online-free-photovoltaic-software/pvgis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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