Building Inspector confirmed commencement. How can I make sure our planning permission doesn't lapse please?

[Mania]

Hi

 

I hope you can help please.

 

Our planning permission is due to expire early next year, so I have been keen to make sure that our permission doesn't lapse.

 

With agreement and advice from our inspector our builder dug a soak away and trench and laid a length of pipe.

 

The Building Inspector was satisfied with commencement of works and has signed off. I have asked the BI to send me written confirmation of the site visit. 

 

Here comes the tricky part (for me anyway, as I desperately need some comfort). I am seeking confirmation from our Local Authority and the representative there keeps acknowledging and referring to the "initial notice" letter from the Building Inspector advising that they will be acting for us and the LPA has also provided me a copy of their acknowledgement back to the inspector in return, as well as advising me, "Once works are complete they will send us a copy of the final certificate". 

 

I might call the LPA representative tomorrow as I feel like I am going in circles to get explicit advice re commencement acknowledgement from them via email. Do the LPA not need a formal notification to confirm that work has commenced, it seems strange to me that they don't? Or Is it just something that the Independent Building Inspector keeps a note of and we are covered, should I relax and stand down? I just don't want to face any issues when we properly start demolition and building in a year or so.

Many thanks in advance for your advice.

 

PS Probably irrelevant but we do have our Section 80 & 81 in place. We can't afford to build in the current climate and likely to go beyond the expiry date.

 

 

[Jilly]

Lots of things with the council planning depts don’t make sense. I’m pretty sure I got a ‘comment of works’ acknowledgement. 

[Temp]

If there is a planning condition requiring work to start within 3 years then apply to have that condition discharged. There is a small fee.

 

First you will also need to meet any other conditions that say "Before work starts..." or similar. Typically this will be conditions requiring  materials or drainage details to be approved. So go through all the planning conditions and see which you need to do before starting work. Some will only need to be done "Before occupation". Those can be done later. Send in any samples and drawings you need approval for.  When they sound happy or if you don't get a reply send one letter/form requesting those conditions be discharged.  The fee is per request not per condition so do as many as possible in one letter.

 

My letter said something like:

 

With reference to planning grant number xxxxx 

I write to request the following planning conditions be formally discharged:

 

Condition 2: The landscape plan has been agreed with the landscape officer.

Condition 4: Brick samples have been submitted to the conservation officer.

Condition 7: A Drainage plan has been agreed.

 

I enclose a cheque for the fee of £x.

 

Yours etc

 

In my case they wrote back to say conditions 2 and 7 were discharged but 4 was not discharged as they had lost the brick samples! I had to send more then sometime later make a new request to discharge and pay the fee again. I guess these days you have to pay the fee by BACS rather than cheque ?

 

If really worried its possible to apply for a Certificate of lawfulness on the grounds work has started. I have seen that done for a wind farm. They built the site entrance then applied for a Certificate to extend their PP indefinitely. It was eventually built 4-5 years later. However the fee for a Certificate is similar to that for a planning application. 

 

 

[ToughButterCup]

11 hours ago, Mania said:

...

I desperately need some comfort

...

 

While @Temp 's a dvice is exactly the correct thing to do, nobody - but nobody could argue that the work already done and signed off does not constitute an official Start. 

Self-building is jangling at so many levels. We understand that. Good luck with the build.

Ian

[Mania]

Thank you all.

@Temp I’ll follow your advice & see where I get to. I’ll post updates here to confirm if I got a “proper” acknowledgment from our LA.

 

You’re right - it is our first condition. I’ll ask the rep to confirm what he needs from us to discharge.
 

We’ve discharged all of our conditions in the document.

 

Apart from Third Party Wall Agreements & I think we’re good to go (when our finances fall into place).

 

Thank you 

Edited July 5, 2023 by Mania

[deancatherine09]

We were advised to get a Lawful Development Certificate from our LPA which confirms that the development has started.

 

We didn't in the end for various reasons, but that's what I would have done had I needed to.

[kandgmitchell]

Have a look at section 56 of the Town and Country Planning Act 1990 (it's on line). That section sets out the time when development has begun. You seem to be relying on paragraph 4(c) "the laying of an underground main or pipe to the foundations, or part of the foundations of a building".

 

I would suggest that you would have to take the pipe from the soakaway right up to the location of the proposed foundations, not just stick in one length of drain. I'm slightly cautious because argueably there are no foundations are there? If you are concerned that the LA may be awkward (if perhaps it was a contentested site) the most secure way is to dig just a small section of foundation trench, then there is no possible dispute because paragraph 4(b) is clear. Get that inspected, photographed  (and then backfilled) and write formally to the LA with the evidence advising that works have materially started on site in accordance with Section 56. The whole hog would be a LDC but it would take a really difficult LA to try and overcome that evidence. Is there a reason that they would take such an extreme approach?

[DevilDamo]

20 hours ago, Temp said:

 

If there is a planning condition requiring work to start within 3 years then apply to have that condition discharged. There is a small fee.

 

How do you formally discharge a non-dischargable condition 🤔

[Temp]

27 minutes ago, DevilDamo said:

How do you formally discharge a non-dischargable condition 🤔

 

Why is it non-dischargable?

[Mania]

17 hours ago, kandgmitchell said:

I would suggest that you would have to take the pipe from the soakaway right up to the location of the proposed foundations, not just stick in one length of drain. I'm slightly cautious because argueably there are no foundations are there? If you are concerned that the LA may be awkward (if perhaps it was a contentested site) the most secure way is to dig just a small section of foundation trench, then there is no possible dispute because paragraph 4(b) is clear. Get that inspected, photographed  (and then backfilled) and write formally to the LA with the evidence advising that works have materially started on site in accordance with Section 56. The whole hog would be a LDC but it would take a really difficult LA to try and overcome that evidence. Is there a reason that they would take such an extreme approach?

 

Thank you @kandgmitchell

 

Our builder did run the length of pipe from soakaway in a trench right up to the location of the proposed foundations which seems to be in line with yours and Building Inspector's advice. 

 

The LA building control team have referred me back to our planning officer who dealt with our case - I can't get through by phone at the moment, when I do hopefully he will give me some sound advice on how to get rid of this headache easily 🤞 I'll ask about discharging the 1st condition and also about the certificate of lawfulness. 

 

I like to think that the LA would be accommodating and want to be onside. It wouldn't be good for anyone if we demolished our home and left it for years until we're in a position ready to build. In this current financial climate it's likely to take us at least 2-3 years. 

 

This is the Condition: 

Conditions: 1

The development hereby permitted shall be begun before the expiration of three years from the date of this permission.

Reason: To comply with the requirements of Section 91 of the Town and Country Planning Act 1990 (as amended).

 

[TonyT]

Don’t waste time phoning BC.

 

Email them at every opportunity progress photos ‘inviting’ them to come to site as and when required.

 

does your planning not advise what stages they want to visit, I.E. inspection of foundation trench prior to concreting.

 

give them dates when the excavation will start, finish, concrete pour date and if they can’t be arsed getting out the office well  that’s bad for them, you gave them plenty prior warning

 

take plenty of photos for your own reference

Edited July 6, 2023 by TonyT

[Temp]

@TonyT See the OP. This thread is about preserving PP from the "must start within 3 years" condition.  The stuff you mention will be relevant once the OP starts building in several years time but now they need the BCO to confirm work has started for the Planners. 

[saveasteading]

As long as you have proof that the project has started all is OK. You don't need certificates.

 

As as long as the bco has been appointed and has been to sitd to approve relevant works then you are OK.

The only issue would be if someone wanted to make trouble and argue that you hadn't started in time.  In that case you have proof in your correspondence and photographs ahat should end the matter

I tend to send copies in an email, to a friend or colleague, or even myself as the email is dated proof.

 

Checklist

Bco appointed (fee paid?)

Relevant work done

Bco has visited and is OK with it.

You have some record

 

I'd just emphasise that it needs to be relevant work and not some trivial thing contrived for the purpose 

[Mania]

3 hours ago, saveasteading said:

As long as you have proof that the project has started all is OK. You don't need certificates.

 

As as long as the bco has been appointed and has been to sitd to approve relevant works then you are OK.

The only issue would be if someone wanted to make trouble and argue that you hadn't started in time.  In that case you have proof in your correspondence and photographs ahat should end the matter

I tend to send copies in an email, to a friend or colleague, or even myself as the email is dated proof.

 

Checklist

Bco appointed (fee paid?)

Relevant work done

Bco has visited and is OK with it.

You have some record

 

I'd just emphasise that it needs to be relevant work and not some trivial thing contrived for the purpose 

 

Thank you @saveasteading

 

We have fulfilled each one of the items on the checklist above and were sure to take plenty of photos and videos of the works carried out to keep as evidence.

 

(For anyone's (in the same position in the future benefit for reference)) after full payment settlement our BCO reviewed all of our structural engineer's, architect's plans & made us get an Energy Compliance report etc. and signed off all that as okay to commence prior to their first site visit to validate.

 

That's a good idea to email them all to someone. Our appointed Building Inspector took many photos too - they have offered to send me their notes for the site visit, I expect that they will make reference to commencement and eagerly await those. 

 

 

[DevilDamo]

On 05/07/2023 at 22:04, Temp said:

 

Why is it non-dischargable?

Because it isn’t worded as such. Which part of the “start within three years…” states you can or need to discharge that condition? Conditions worded prior to commencement/development/demolition/occupation are dischargeable conditions. To confirm commencement, you either submit a LDC application or some LPA’s may offer a “letter of comfort”.

[Mania]

On 07/07/2023 at 01:28, DevilDamo said:

Because it isn’t worded as such. Which part of the “start within three years…” states you can or need to discharge that condition? Conditions worded prior to commencement/development/demolition/occupation are dischargeable conditions. To confirm commencement, you either submit a LDC application or some LPA’s may offer a “letter of comfort”.

👍 The wording for condition 1 was "The development hereby permitted shall be begun before the expiration of three years from the date of this permission"

[Mania]

Thank you all for your guidance. I am not anxious about our permission lapsing and evidencing anymore. 

 

So, I spoke to the building inspector at our LA for guidance as to what they would do. He said they don't usually notify on commencement and advised me to check with the Planning Officer. I decided to email him to notify him of commencement and I received a response saying noted and there is no requirement to notify. I am happy to have a time and date stamp against that.

The building inspectors site visit report also has purpose of visit "commencement" plastered on it. Now I am comfortable that officials have acknowledged and documented our start....

@saveasteading your advice was sound - thank you.