New ground mount PV array

[Crofter]

50 minutes ago, Dillsue said:

Any surplus isn't wasted as it goes to power your neighbours and offset their grid demand. For a lot of people they see that as "wasted" but it's not.

 

As you've already bought the panels but not using them, then that is wasted money/resource.

Absolutely. Just because somebody else benefits, doesn't mean you are losing anything.

[-rick-]

3 hours ago, Dillsue said:

As you've already bought the panels but not using them, then that is wasted money/resource.

 

Theres another benefit to starting now, even if you initially see minimal gain. It chips away at a bigger project, getting you closer to the goal. Once this is up and running, your list of things to do will be less daunting and more approachable. Plus theres always the chance that once the inverter is generating it provides you the data to justify more upgrades.

[Roger440]

21 hours ago, Crofter said:

@Roger440 how much of the gear have you already bought? 

The only way to guarantee no benefit is to leave it uninstalled. 

Just because you can't get the optimum use out of it doesn't mean it's pointless. You have to install the panels etc eventually, might as well do it now and you'll offset a bit of energy. And you can feel smug because you're doing your bit to help decarbonise the grid.

 

22 panels 2 invertors, isolaters etc. Bought would be stretch. Obtained for free courtesy of my former business landlord who was putting them in a skip. Never even been commisioned.

 

I guess the fact they were free takes the pressure to do anything away. When theres a 100 other more pressing jobs to do. 

[Roger440]

9 hours ago, -rick- said:

 

Theres another benefit to starting now, even if you initially see minimal gain. It chips away at a bigger project, getting you closer to the goal. Once this is up and running, your list of things to do will be less daunting and more approachable. Plus theres always the chance that once the inverter is generating it provides you the data to justify more upgrades.

 

This is indeed a valid point. I generally avoid doing things twice, but maybe i need to on this occassion................................

[Crofter]

1 hour ago, Roger440 said:

 

22 panels 2 invertors, isolaters etc. Bought would be stretch. Obtained for free courtesy of my former business landlord who was putting them in a skip. Never even been commisioned.

 

I guess the fact they were free takes the pressure to do anything away. When theres a 100 other more pressing jobs to do. 

Here's a much better plan, sell it to me 😁

[JohnMo]

Well 2 and bit years later the whole array is getting modified. Will keep existing inverter and cables, but installing 12x 445Wp modules, in 2x arrays. The will be mounted on the existing frame, with some steel work being modified.

 

Mainly want to increase shoulder seasons and winter production, and accept some summer output clipping. Got AI to calculate likely clipping losses based on 15p import and export rate and it estimates between £10 and £15 losses each year, all occuring mid summer around midday.

 

So if anyone is looking for 12x 285Wp panels they are for sale.

 

[Gus Potter]

1 hour ago, JohnMo said:

Got AI to calculate likely clipping losses based on 15p

I've started using AI more and more, mainly to help job my memory. I bit the bullet mainly due to encouragement form other BH members. Sometimes I ask it to do some calculations, often just to see the format or to see if it flags up something I've not thought about, or give me another verified reference I've not looked up. In that context it's a great aide memoir. 

 

BUT you have to really watch it! As an SE I've recognised that it can be downright dangerous in terms of safety. 

 

I was looking to calculate what sort of torque I might want to apply to resin anchor ordinary bolt the other day to generate a bit of pre load in masonry. I wondered if AI would offer up an alternative approach for example. It came back with some calculations.. they looked odd. I checked against my standard method and found AI was exactly a factor of 10 out on the unsafe side! 

 

I then told it was a factor of 10 out, it ran again and said your right, it often only appologises if you threaten to pull it's plug out! 

 

 

Edited Wednesday at 20:00 by Gus Potter

[JohnMo]

23 minutes ago, Gus Potter said:

started using AI more and more, mainly to help job my memory

I am similar. Don't really trust it that much, without plenty of interrogation. Asking various questions posed in different ways.

 

Often ask "are you sure" sometimes get the answer yes other times an apology.

 

Generally use it to get information, I could find myself, but it does it quickly, but sometimes on a total tangent. 

[SteamyTea]

10 hours ago, Gus Potter said:

I've started using AI more and more

 

9 hours ago, JohnMo said:

Don't really trust it that much

I trust it as much as Wikipedia, it is OK if you know the answer, but just need a reminder.

[Beelbeebub]

12 hours ago, JohnMo said:

Well 2 and bit years later the whole array is getting modified. Will keep existing inverter and cables, but installing 12x 445Wp modules, in 2x arrays. The will be mounted on the existing frame, with some steel work being modified.

 

Mainly want to increase shoulder seasons and winter production, and accept some summer output clipping. Got AI to calculate likely clipping losses based on 15p import and export rate and it estimates between £10 and £15 losses each year, all occuring mid summer around midday.

 

So if anyone is looking for 12x 285Wp panels they are for sale.

 

Can I ask, how much those panels cost and how old they were? Just trying to get a handle on how much things have moved on in the past few years. 

[Crofter]

1 hour ago, SteamyTea said:

 

I trust it as much as Wikipedia, it is OK if you know the answer, but just need a reminder.

I'm not sure I've ever found Wikipedia to be wrong.

[Beelbeebub]

1 hour ago, SteamyTea said:

I trust it as much as Wikipedia, it is OK if you know the answer, but just need a reminder.

Given Wikipedia is one of the training data sets, any "AI" answer will almost certainly be less trustworthy.

 

"AI" is, at it's heart, very fancy auto complete. 

 

You give it an input and it creates a statistically likely response. 

 

You ask for a picture of a dog on a unicycle in the style of Rembrant and it spits out it's best guess but it doesn't actually know what a dog, unicycle or Rembrant are. 

 

Similarly, if you ask it a technical question it will reply with an answer that sounds right, has some formulas and technical words in etc.

 

It's.a bit like that game "would I lie to you". 

 

Except it just picks the answer based on who sounds right rather than knowing what is right. 

 

Sometimes they are the same thing. A large proportion of the time they are not. 

 

[JohnMo]

46 minutes ago, Crofter said:

I'm not sure I've ever found Wikipedia to be wrong.

I was in a meeting once (15 years ago) and a guy quoted from Wikipedia - the info he provided was very wrong, he got caught out. Was very embarrassed for a long time.

 

40 minutes ago, Beelbeebub said:

picks the answer

It's reference set is the internet, there is a lot of duff information out there. There lots of good stuff also. Trouble is a few iterations of rubbish, is still rubbish. But if you have a a decent grasp of the subject, you can mark the work spat out, and either ask it to try again or accept it. If you are asking questions about a subject you know nothing about, you've no hope or very lucky.

[JohnMo]

1 hour ago, Beelbeebub said:

Can I ask, how much those panels cost and how old they were? Just trying to get a handle on how much things have moved on in the past few years. 

The panels I am installing are new. Around £65 each including VAT.

[Beelbeebub]

23 minutes ago, JohnMo said:

The panels I am installing are new. Around £65 each including VAT.

Sorry, I meant the old panels. 

 

As you say we are nearly at £100/kw before vat now. 

 

I was wondering what the ratio was when you put the orginal panels in. 

[JohnMo]

1 minute ago, Beelbeebub said:

Sorry, I meant the old panels. 

 

As you say we are nearly at £100/kw before vat now. 

 

I was wondering what the ratio was when you put the orginal panels in. 

So 12 x 285W panels were £700 and had been installed for just under 2 years. Prices have dropped quite a bit

[Beelbeebub]

54 minutes ago, JohnMo said:

So 12 x 285W panels were £700 and had been installed for just under 2 years. Prices have dropped quite a bit

So £60 each or about £200 per kw?

 

Roughly halved in price and doubled in output. 

 

The same money now buys you 2x the output vs 2 years ago, in the same footprint! 

 

Wow! 

[SteamyTea]

4 hours ago, Beelbeebub said:

It's.a bit like that game "would I lie to you".

Back in the 1980s we used to play a game called 'Plausible Answers'. Should have copyrighted the format.

'the Caspian Sea is 2 foot deep at its widest point' is still my favourite.

It is worth asking AI what the rules of 'Mornington Cresent' are, and specially as the rule book was withdrawn in the early 1970s.

That was a traumatic day, front page news for 15 minutes.

Edited 17 hours ago by SteamyTea

[Nickfromwales]

On 17/12/2025 at 19:57, Gus Potter said:

I've started using AI more and more, mainly to help job my memory. I bit the bullet mainly due to encouragement form other BH members. Sometimes I ask it to do some calculations, often just to see the format or to see if it flags up something I've not thought about, or give me another verified reference I've not looked up. In that context it's a great aide memoir. 

 

BUT you have to really watch it! As an SE I've recognised that it can be downright dangerous in terms of safety. 

 

I was looking to calculate what sort of torque I might want to apply to resin anchor ordinary bolt the other day to generate a bit of pre load in masonry. I wondered if AI would offer up an alternative approach for example. It came back with some calculations.. they looked odd. I checked against my standard method and found AI was exactly a factor of 10 out on the unsafe side! 

 

I then told it was a factor of 10 out, it ran again and said your right, it often only appologises if you threaten to pull it's plug out! 

 

 

You’re asking a modern juke box to give random answers it finds from people giving random answers. 
 

Ffs. Leave it alone and remain as a human.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ai told me to pull you over this, so don’t shoot the messenger-robot who’s eyes just went from blue to red. 👀