Is this RSJ long enough

[Mr Blobby]

I think steel beam marked with 2300 should be longer so that it is supported by more of the padstone.

Should I get it swapped out?

 

 

 

 

 

[Conor]

What's the bearing? Ideally 200mm, min 100mm. What are they supporting?

 

You've a lot of fireproof painting to do there....

Edited June 26, 2023 by Conor

[Mr Blobby]

17 minutes ago, Conor said:

What's the bearing? Ideally 200mm, min 100mm.

 

 

You mean this:

 

 

That'll be about 180mm

 

17 minutes ago, Conor said:

What are they supporting?

 

Hollow core slabs.  But this RSJ supports further beams that in turn support more hollow core slabs so I think this bit may be quite important 😬

 

17 minutes ago, Conor said:

 

You've a lot of fireproof painting to do there....

 

Tell me about it 😩

 

 

.. The RHS in the first photo is ok-ish, its the LHS that's a bit on the edge I think.

 

Edited June 26, 2023 by Mr Blobby

[Conor]

180mm is loads.

 

Make sure the slab company come out to measure up once steels are in and ask about the install order to make sure they've thought about them slottin in between the steels. They messed that up on ours and we had to prop a slab up and slide a beam in to it. Instead the beam should have had a plate welded to the bottom to take the slabs.

[Mr Blobby]

10 minutes ago, Conor said:

180mm is loads.

 

Make sure the slab company come out to measure up once steels are in and ask about the install order to make sure they've thought about them slottin in between the steels. They messed that up on ours and we had to prop a slab up and slide a beam in to it. Instead the beam should have had a plate welded to the bottom to take the slabs.

 

Slabbies (is that a thing) are coming out to measure tomorrow.  

Good point about the slab support within RSJs.  l'll ask them about this tomorrow😉

 

 

... going back to my original question @Conor, do you think there would there be any benefit in making that RSJ longer to be better supported by the padstone?  It just seems to me to be on the edge and longer would be better.   Or am I being a bit OCD here 🤪

 

Edited June 26, 2023 by Mr Blobby

[Mr Punter]

54 minutes ago, Conor said:

You've a lot of fireproof painting to do there....

 

Won't they be protected by the plasterboard ceiling?

[Conor]

6 minutes ago, Mr Punter said:

 

Won't they be protected by the plasterboard ceiling?

Here you need to either paint, double board or fully pink board. I chose paint. It was not the right choice.

[Mr Punter]

1 minute ago, Conor said:

Here you need to either paint, double board or fully pink board. I chose paint. It was not the right choice.

 

Agreed.  Paint is as messy as hell and how do you know how much is applied?  Are people really measuring the wet film thickness for every coat and applying the xx number of coats specified.

[saveasteading]

Support on padstone. Your SE ( or your contractor's SE) is the only one who can advise as we don't know the loading, and aren't about to calculate it.

 

Fire protection is for another day. For a start I would fill in the void at top left , with rockwool or masonry, to take it out of the equation.

Paint is unlikely to be the optimum solution.

The top surfaces will be protected by the planks.

47 minutes ago, Conor said:

ask about the install order to make sure they've thought

Politely though....it is what they do and they are  used to sorting out factory errors.

[ETC]

35 minutes ago, Mr Punter said:

 

Won't they be protected by the plasterboard ceiling?

No.

[ETC]

27 minutes ago, Conor said:

Here you need to either paint, double board or fully pink board. I chose paint. It was not the right choice.

As long as it’s a recognised system it will be fine. Don’t just slap a bit of pink board around the beams. Doesn’t work as simple as that.

[ETC]

1 hour ago, Mr Blobby said:

I think steel beam marked with 2300 should be longer so that it is supported by more of the padstone.

Should I get it swapped out?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Look at the specification on your SE drawing. You won’t get an answer here.

[saveasteading]

20 minutes ago, ETC said:

Don’t just slap a bit of pink board around the beams. Doesn’t work as simple as that.

It will be simple. Your professionals should have thought about it, a bit at least. Pink plasterboard is overused but it makes bcos comfortable.

[Dave Jones]

1 hour ago, ETC said:

Look at the specification on your SE drawing. You won’t get an answer here.

 

This.

 

150mm min is standard for off the shelf lintels. all depends on the design.

[nod]

2 hours ago, Mr Punter said:

 

Won't they be protected by the plasterboard ceiling?

If it’s two story The steels won’t need protecting 

Your engineers drawing will have all the pad stone sizes and baring points 

Look at the drawing BC will 

[ETC]

37 minutes ago, Dave Jones said:

 

This.

 

150mm min is standard for off the shelf lintels. all depends on the design.

It’s not a lintel it’s a steel beam. Bearing determined by the SE.

[ETC]

8 minutes ago, nod said:

If it’s two story The steels won’t need protecting 

Your engineers drawing will have all the pad stone sizes and baring points 

Look at the drawing BC will 

Yes they will.

[Dave Jones]

1 minute ago, ETC said:

It’s not a lintel it’s a steel beam. Bearing determined by the SE.

 

thats what i said ? 

[ETC]

42 minutes ago, Dave Jones said:

 

This.

 

150mm min is standard for off the shelf lintels. all depends on the design.

I only see the word lintel.

[ETC]

1 hour ago, saveasteading said:

It will be simple. Your professionals should have thought about it, a bit at least. Pink plasterboard is overused but it makes bcos comfortable.

Needs to be a system-can’t just slap pink board around a steel beam. If any contractor used this I’d ask him for a British Gypsum/Lafarge system and would make sure he’s built to it.

[saveasteading]

13 hours ago, saveasteading said:

factory errors.

When they build cutouts at the factory it is very primitive, and surprising it is ever correct.

A very long plank is extruded on the ground over the tension wires. It goes hard but first someone cuts out any boxings with a shovel. Then they slice into plank lengths which ping into their curved shapes.

Then they load the lorry in correct or random order.

[Temp]

What density are the blocks? Our SE wanted denser blocks used where the walls were more highly loaded.

[Mr Blobby]

20 hours ago, ETC said:

Look at the specification on your SE drawing. You won’t get an answer here.

 

Indeed.  I have run this past the SE and waiting for a full answer.  There were some other issues on other padstones being installed that are smaller than specification 🧐 so this is part of a wider enquiry.

I would have made that steel a bit longer to sit further over the centre of the padstone, but that's just me wanting done as best as possible rather than to min spec to save costs.  The irony is, however, that it is probably just as well it isn't 😉

 

3 hours ago, Temp said:

What density are the blocks? Our SE wanted denser blocks used where the walls were more highly loaded.

 

Yes.  That's exactly what our SE has asked.  Medium density 7N is the answer.  So standard blocks.

 

18 hours ago, nod said:

Your engineers drawing will have all the pad stone sizes and baring points 

Look at the drawing BC will 

 

Interestingly enough the only some of the bigger padstone sizes supporting the bigger steels are explicitly specified on the SE drawings. And nothing AFAICS about how much steel should be resting on the padstones.

 

And this padstone is not one that the SE has explicitly sized.

 

21 hours ago, Conor said:

... ask about the install order to make sure they've thought about them slottin in between the steels. They messed that up on ours and we had to prop a slab up and slide a beam in to it. Instead the beam should have had a plate welded to the bottom to take the slabs.

 

The single slab between the two steels should rest on the L-shape at the end on the left.  That's the theory anyway. If the slabs are the right size and installed in the right order of course.

 

 

 

20 hours ago, Mr Punter said:

 

Agreed.  Paint is as messy as hell and how do you know how much is applied?  Are people really measuring the wet film thickness for every coat and applying the xx number of coats specified.

 

I have a choice of paint or paint.   I'll be doing the painting myself so its nice to hear this is a shitty messy job to look forward to🧐. 

 

 

20 hours ago, saveasteading said:

For a start I would fill in the void at top left , with rockwool or masonry, to take it out of the equation.

Paint is unlikely to be the optimum solution.

 

The funny thing is that (I have since remembered) a gap is needed above that padstone to run some services including MVHR ducts in the ceiling void to the kitchen. 

So, while I may have made that RSJ longer, its a good thing that it doesn't sit across the whole padstone as I have don't have good alternatives to run the ducts 🤪

 

 

Edited June 27, 2023 by Mr Blobby

[saveasteading]

31 minutes ago, Mr Blobby said:

people really measuring the wet film thickness for every

It's easy to do. Easier though is to calculate the quantity of paint per coat, split it down into that and apply the several coats.

Many people don't apply the sealing coat which it also needs.

31 minutes ago, Mr Blobby said:

have a choice of paint or paint.   

Surprised to hear that. Why? Who Says? 

It implies that the steels are remaining on show as a feature.

[Conor]

57 minutes ago, Mr Blobby said:

 

Indeed.  I have run this past the SE and waiting for a full answer.  There were some other issues on other padstones being installed that are smaller than specification 🧐 so this is part of a wider enquiry.

I would have made that steel a bit longer to sit further over the centre of the padstone, but that's just me wanting done as best as possible rather than to min spec to save costs.  The irony is, however, that it is probably just as well it isn't 😉

 

 

Yes.  That's exactly what our SE has asked.  Medium density 7N is the answer.  So standard blocks.

 

 

Interestingly enough the only some of the bigger padstone sizes supporting the bigger steels are explicitly specified on the SE drawings. And nothing AFAICS about how much steel should be resting on the padstones.

 

And this padstone is not one that the SE has explicitly sized.

 

 

The single slab between the two steels should rest on the L-shape at the end on the left.  That's the theory anyway. If the slabs are the right size and installed in the right order of course.

 

 

 

 

I have a choice of paint or paint.   I'll be doing the painting myself so its nice to hear this is a shitty messy job to look forward to🧐. 

 

 

 

The funny thing is that (I have since remembered) a gap is needed above that padstone to run some services including MVHR ducts in the ceiling void to the kitchen. 

So, while I may have made that RSJ longer, its a good thing that it doesn't sit across the whole padstone as I have don't have good alternatives to run the ducts 🤪

 

 

 

We found the paint really, really thick and hard to apply. It says don't water down, I'd be tempted to water down the first coat regardless. And do it now before the slabs go in as technically you need to cover any part that could be exposed to flame. Depends how fussy our BCO is. Ours wasn't, but was very complimentary with our effort and said quite often people just paint the visible undersides.